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Subject: Other games like this rss

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Daniel DeMars
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Huh, funny you should ask that. As a matter of fact, Lvl99 currently has a new game on Kickstarter, EXCEED (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/level99games/exceed-car...) - it uses the same combat resolution system as BattleCON (Range, Power, Priority, Stun Guard) but is otherwise a much different game - featuring a draw deck, a hidden hand, a very different economic system (somewhat similar to Race for the Galaxy, in that you pay for abilities by discarding cards), and generally streamlined rules. If you're even slightly interested, I would definitely recommend trying out the PnP (available here http://www.level99games.com/homepage/all-news/96-exceed-figh...). While on the surface it may appear quite similar to BattleCON, in my experience it plays and feels very distinct.

Aside from that, there is Yomi, which features simultaneous action selection, though, unlike BattleCON, it has a tweaked RockPaperScissors interaction for combat resolution (which is, in all fairness, much more interesting than it sounds).
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Marco Santos
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LeinadColtrane wrote:
Aside from that, there is Yomi, which features simultaneous action selection, though, unlike BattleCON, it has a tweaked RockPaperScissors interaction for combat resolution (which is, in all fairness, much more interesting than it sounds).


Though, to be fair, BattleCON is a modified RockPaperScissorsLizardSpock interaction in itself. Though, it is WAY more complicated than Yomi's thing.
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Dylan Thurston
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My first question is, similar in what ways? What aspects really excite you?
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Vladislav Goldakovsky
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Yomi is similar to BattleCON in it's core mechanic (Characters, Simultaneous Action Selection with RPS dynamic), but feels very different in every other regard.

In Yomi you play with card frequencies and trends for different character. While the game named for "reading", you only read your opponent and trying to capitalize on his predictability. In Yomi, reading is almost always arbitrary and rarely precise.

In BattleCON you play not only with opponent, but also with elaborate board positions, card stats and ability interactions. So, you're not only reading your opponent, but also constantly changing game situation and options available to both players. Thus, precise reading is crucial and guessing plays are much more rare.

However, Yomi is obsessively numerically balanced.
While BattleCON is just decently balanced.

Yomi is more simple and elegant design.
BattleCON is more dramatic, "baroque" design.

Yomi is poker.
BattleCON is chess.
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Aaron White
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mnmkami wrote:
LeinadColtrane wrote:
Aside from that, there is Yomi, which features simultaneous action selection, though, unlike BattleCON, it has a tweaked RockPaperScissors interaction for combat resolution (which is, in all fairness, much more interesting than it sounds).


Though, to be fair, BattleCON is a modified RockPaperScissorsLizardSpock interaction in itself. Though, it is WAY more complicated than Yomi's thing.

I do not want to say BattleCON is less complicated, but definitely not WAY more complicated than Yomi. For a game without movement there is a lot of decision making that goes into every rock or scissors chosen in Yomi.

But I agree that Exceed is more accessible than both Yomi or BattleCON, only two pages of rules but all of the tabletop fighting game fluff.
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Christopher Wionzek
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Dramatheurgist wrote:
However, Yomi is obsessively numerically balanced.
While BattleCON is just decently balanced.


I think Yomi is two more steps abstracted from what it's modelling (fighting games) than BattleCON is, and to me that's too much abstraction.

First, it loses positioning. Positioning is huge and one of my favourite parts of BattleCON. I think Yomi suffers for lack of this visualization, especially since "footsies" are so huge in fighting games.

Second, it loses the widely varied movesets; instead abstracting it down into "trends" across the deck plus a few specials. Not a fan of this either.

On the BattleCON side, the Force Gauge has actually added the equivalent of "EX" moves to BattleCON, which I think is great. Now it adds a whole extra level of complexity to every move, depending on spending a resource.

Right now, I'd say that while Yomi may be a more "balanced" game...BattleCON is a much better simulator of the actual ebb-and-flow of a fighting game. There's just too much abstraction in Yomi for it to grab me.
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Daniel DeMars
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Dragoonkin wrote:
Dramatheurgist wrote:
However, Yomi is obsessively numerically balanced.
While BattleCON is just decently balanced.


I think Yomi is two more steps abstracted from what it's modelling (fighting games) than BattleCON is, and to me that's too much abstraction.

First, it loses positioning. Positioning is huge and one of my favourite parts of BattleCON. I think Yomi suffers for lack of this visualization, especially since "footsies" are so huge in fighting games.


Incidentally, EXCEED, in my opinion, emulates fighting game movement better than BattleCON (though, don't get me wrong, I love how tight BattleCON's movement system is), since most movement is independent of attacks.

(sorry for harping on EXCEED like this, but it is a pretty great game, and has been stalled on KS for a bit, so trying to get the word out more)
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Thiago Colas
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Similar to all, but different from all of them, is Dragon Punch. It is much simpler and more abstract than either Yomi, Exceed or BattleCON, but extremelly simple and much more portable, and is played entirely on the hand, no need for table or aything else.
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Daniel DeMars
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dinobottm2 wrote:
Similar to all, but different from all of them, is Dragon Punch. It is much simpler and more abstract than either Yomi, Exceed or BattleCON, but extremelly simple and much more portable, and is played entirely on the hand, no need for table or aything else.


I got to play a demo of Dragon Punch at GenCon and it is really fun - while it is more abstract, the way it handles simultaneous selection (basically, once one person has chosen their attack, they count down from three, by which time the opponent must have selected their attack too) mimics the pace of fighting games much better than any other card/board game I've played. And since the mechanics are so simple, this speed of play doesn't feel overwhelming.

Unfortunately, I missed the KS for it, and it's not out yet. But when it is, it will be available from Lvl99 games (who picked it up for distribution).
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Thiago Colas
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LeinadColtrane wrote:
I got to play a demo of Dragon Punch at GenCon and it is really fun - while it is more abstract, the way it handles simultaneous selection (basically, once one person has chosen their attack, they count down from three, by which time the opponent must have selected their attack too) mimics the pace of fighting games much better than any other card/board game I've played. And since the mechanics are so simple, this speed of play doesn't feel overwhelming.


By the way, if you really want to simulate the intense adrenaline rush of a fighting game with ANY of these games, a clock is required.
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Christopher Wionzek
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LeinadColtrane wrote:
Incidentally, EXCEED, in my opinion, emulates fighting game movement better than BattleCON (though, don't get me wrong, I love how tight BattleCON's movement system is), since most movement is independent of attacks.


Actually, you just reminded me of another thing Yomi (and EXCEED) lose...having all (or almost all) your moves "in hand". When you go to a deck for draws, that's a killer to me. Getting wrecked because you didn't have "the right" moves available to you...not what I want.

With the Force Gauge, I've become in love with the fact that tossing your potential of using your Finisher means you get 20 moves to choose from instead of 15. You discard 2 turns of one move for 2 turns of 5 more moves. It's great.
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Brad Rosenquist
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There is also Flash Duel, in which positioning is everything. It simulates sparring (or fencing even), in where you and the opponent play movement cards back and forth until someone gets a successful strike. Each character has 3 special move cards that are available from the start. Your hand consists of movement cards. It's a fun little game.
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Aaron White
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Dragoonkin wrote:
LeinadColtrane wrote:
Incidentally, EXCEED, in my opinion, emulates fighting game movement better than BattleCON (though, don't get me wrong, I love how tight BattleCON's movement system is), since most movement is independent of attacks.


Actually, you just reminded me of another thing Yomi (and EXCEED) lose...having all (or almost all) your moves "in hand". When you go to a deck for draws, that's a killer to me. Getting wrecked because you didn't have "the right" moves available to you...not what I want.

This is not entirely luck, hand management is one of the joys of Yomi and Exceed. The decisions you make determine the contents of your hand. In Yomi, if you do consecutive throws, dodges and face attacks your hand is going to drop. You need to utilise block and normal attacks to build your hand for better options.

Exceed does it in a really neat way with the force mechanic, because you can influence both your own or your opponents hand in different ways. If your character is mobile, you can make the opponent burn through their cards trying to keep favourable positioning. You can convert gauge into force, allowing you to spike your hand with cards. There are other things too, such as using wild swings early game to prevent your hand from dwindling.

At first I loved the idea of BattleCON having no random elements. But you do learn to appreciate good hand management in both Yomi and Exceed because it adds a layer to the blind reveal mechanic. Plus at the end of the day, at least it is not Magic when you get land locked.
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Eric Randolph
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Think I'm just going to wait out Exceed. I just got into BattleCON and personally figuring out how all the characters interact has been a blast.

As for Yomi well, I almost didn't play BattleCON because of my 3 brief games I played of Yomi. I've never been more apathetic about a game, I can't say it was bad, but I know I won't bother playing it again. Someone mentioned too many degrees of "abstraction," which is exactly how I would put it.
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Christopher Wionzek
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Rook96 wrote:
This is not entirely luck, hand management is one of the joys of Yomi and Exceed. The decisions you make determine the contents of your hand. In Yomi, if you do consecutive throws, dodges and face attacks your hand is going to drop. You need to utilise block and normal attacks to build your hand for better options.


Yeah, but if I want to have my game depend on what I draw from my deck, ratios or not, I'd play Netrunner (and do). I was attracted to the "luckless" nature of BattleCON.
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Daniel DeMars
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Dragoonkin wrote:
Rook96 wrote:
This is not entirely luck, hand management is one of the joys of Yomi and Exceed. The decisions you make determine the contents of your hand. In Yomi, if you do consecutive throws, dodges and face attacks your hand is going to drop. You need to utilise block and normal attacks to build your hand for better options.


Yeah, but if I want to have my game depend on what I draw from my deck, ratios or not, I'd play Netrunner (and do). I was attracted to the "luckless" nature of BattleCON.


For what it's worth, I also play Netrunner. The extent to which my options are dependent on my draw feels very different in EXCEED and Netrunner. For one thing, EXCEED has less variance, since the deck size is smaller and all cards are attacks, boosts, and force. Don't get me wrong, I think Netrunner is a fantastic game (it might even tie with BattleCON for a my favorite game), but I feel like the amount of times I will feel totally at a loss for options in EXCEED will probably be less than in Netrunner (which, to be fair, only happens regularly in Netrunner when I decide to play jank).

Anyway, my ultimate reason for being excited about EXCEED despite playing many other 2-player games is that it fits a distinct niche for me. I understand everyone has their own niches, though, so your mileage will vary. However, I would at least try the PnP if you haven't.
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Aljo Martinez
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The new WWE Superstar Showdown game looks like a mix of BattleCON and Yomi and made bigger. There's the basic rock/paper/scissors mechanic with the cards except here you program three cards each turn instead of just one, it has grid based movement instead of movement along a single track, and damage is measured by your deck. It actually looks really fun.
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Marc Gaudet
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I played a game called Epic Spell Wars of the Battle Wizards: Duel at Mt. Skullzfyre and I would say to definitly check that game out if you want a (lighter) more chaotic multiplayer version of BattleCon.There is no board but they share the same card pairing mechanics but with 3 cards rather than 2 and attacks are usually made stronger if paired with other attacks of the same color. Its not as technical as BattleCon but it plays very fast. Rounds can last few minutes if the combos played are strong and there are a lot of players. There is also a cool catchup mechanic where eliminated players get to draw cards that give them small boosts for the next round every turn until the end of the round.
 
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