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Was deemed to be hyperactive and a doctor told you to put your, say eight year old, on drugs to calm them down.... would you?
 
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Ron Preisach
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Twenty-two by seven?
 
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What drugs am I on in this hypothetical? Good ones?
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edgerunner76 wrote:
Twenty-two by seven?


Shut your Pi hole.
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I would have to say it depends on severity and the proposed drug. If it is simply causing learning issues, I'd rather find him/her special learning processes that allow for hyperactivity. If it was actually dangerous levels, I'd seriously consider it.
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It depends. Is my kid spamming internet forums with leading questions, mutilated English and the sense of a door knocker?
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batman wrote:
It depends. Is my kid spamming internet forums with leading questions, mutilated English and the sense of a door knocker?


Fuck off asshole.
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FWIW, our oldest (eventually diagnosed as autistic) went on Ritalin around that age, but it wasn't for hyperactivity.

I was "calmed down" in elementary school every few weeks with the application of a board to my backside. It worked for a week or so....
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I'd follow my wife's recommendation. Marrying a doctor is pretty awesome.

Do you have a view on this issue you'd like to share, Dashi?
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qzhdad wrote:
FWIW, our oldest (eventually diagnosed as autistic) went on Ritalin around that age, but it wasn't for hyperactivity.

I was "calmed down" in elementary school every few weeks with the application of a board to my backside. It worked for a week or so....


My autistic son is on Vyvanse for the same reasons and there is nothing wrong with it.
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TheDashi wrote:
batman wrote:
It depends. Is my kid spamming internet forums with leading questions, mutilated English and the sense of a door knocker?


Fuck off asshole.


I agree. RSP's liberal, low-intelligence hate-filled shitbags seem to come here for the sole purpose of stalking people they feel threatened by and attacking them. Carl is up and down, like a manic-depressive, one day sensible, the next a hate-spewing dickbag. I suspect he may have always been in need of some sort of pharmaceuticals to even him out and make him more tolerable.

Until then though, he's kind of a cunt.

WRT the OP:

I have a 13 year old who suffers from CAPD. The disability makes everything school-related 10X more difficult for him. I can't even begin to communicate how much I admire him for being able to read and do math. It's an absolute fucking miracle because I sat with him night after night for years helping him and witnessing the oppressive and grueling toll the simplest of tasks took on him. But he continued and more or less silently bore the burden of acquiring language and math skills and patiently working to parse finely nuanced social interaction rules and concepts and integrate them into his own skill set.

And through it all he suffered from not being able to focus for anything like a reasonable period of time. And yes, like most preteen boys, he was active and moving and loud and laughing and all the things boys are. Then at 11, he began taking a low dose of Concerta on school days only. My choice, not giving it to him on weekends. The results were immediate and he told me and the doctor in no uncertain terms that he felt much, much, much better at school and felt like he was better at every task. He liked the way he felt for the same reason you or I might like the way an antibiotic kills a virus and makes us feel less like we're dying, or how a couple ibuprofen can sooth sore joints and achy muscles or clear up a headache that is pounding us into ineffectiveness.

There is a resistance movement in America to giving kids drugs to help them control their attention or ease the suffering that kids like mine endured daily when confronted by words and problems on paper in a room swirling with activity and ambient noise. It's no different in my view than the anti-vac movement - a bunch of ill-informed know-nothings who feed off each other's paranoia and misguided notion that because they all read the same 12 articles that confirmed their personal biases that the medical field is intentionally drugging children for some indescribable, nebulous but obviously evil purpose.

Fuck that shit. If you have watched your own child cry and rage but still not give up trying to attain what comes easily for most kids and done it for years, then you'd be like me now - fucking well thrilled that not only has his heroic effort made him a more admirable student than I ever dreamed of being, but the help of a simple pill has created a world a lot less chaotic for him at school.

This is a great topic. Too bad RSP is infected with a bunch Leftoid pussies who are threatened by what they don't understand... which is pretty much everything.


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99 out of 100 kids IMO who are diagnosed with behavioral problems that need medication just need some personal attention and loving patience. If I were convinced that my child were that 100th child and there were no other way, I'd go ahead and give the kid the drugs but I'd be damned hard to convince.
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DWTripp wrote:

There is a resistance movement in America to giving kids drugs to help them control their attention or ease the suffering that kids like mine endured daily when confronted by words and problems on paper in a room swirling with activity and ambient noise. It's no different in my view than the anti-vac movement - a bunch of ill-informed know-nothings who feed off each other's paranoia and misguided notion that because they all read the same 12 articles that confirmed their personal biases that the medical field is intentionally drugging children for some indescribable, nebulous but obviously evil purpose.

Fuck that shit. If you have watched your own child cry and rage but still not give up trying to attain what comes easily for most kids and done it for years, then you'd be like me now - fucking well thrilled that not only has his heroic effort made him a more admirable student than I ever dreamed of being, but the help of a simple pill has created a world a lot less chaotic for him at school.




My issue with this is that it's at the school's recommendation. I would not do one damned thing based solely on the school's recommendation. If it keeps coming up, then I take my kid to someone who is licensed and trained to make some sort of actual diagnosis. But I'm not going to start putting chemicals in my kid simply because the teacher thinks her burgeoning alcoholism may have its foundations laid by a kid who doesn't always do what she's told and making the teacher's job easier.
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My son used to have a really weird disorder.

When required to concentrate on a singular task, he had a chance of seizing. And I don't mean like a convulsive fit - like getting stuck, unable to move.

He was doing dishes and the sound of silverware stopped. I went to check - he was staring at a fork. He didn't respond to me. Just stared. I pulled the fork from his hand, he took it back and continued, unaware he had been staring at a fork unmoving for 4-5 minutes.

Once the school called as he was spinning the dial on his locker. Until the buses all left. Just spinning.

Obviously, doctors and brain scans ensued. For one, it turned out he has an odd mutation where one lobe of his brain is also cleft horizontally - they say this happens in 5% of the population, but most people don't get their brains imaged to know.

But brain scans determined that when he concentrated on something, his frontal lobe, instead of pretty much lighting up, would fall asleep. So he actually would fall into a waking trance.

We tried to hold off on actual prescriptions. They gave us the script and we figured we would fill it the next time he 'went spooky' hoping to not have to use it.

We put him on vitamin D. They gave him some mental and meditative exercises. We would work them nightly.

Within a few weeks, the episodes stopped. The little telltale other things began to fade. We never filled the prescription.

Maybe the OTC drugs would have had the same effect, but vitamins and a little work seems to have been enough.
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Preschool paid for by the city gov't here starts at age 3. My younger daughter is one of the younger kids to qualify this year. She's not yet fully potty trained, has vision problems and speaks English at home. Although they are supposed to if we provide nappies, which we do, they refuse to change her nappy. We've told them that she misbehaves if you don't change her nappy. They still don't get it. They want her to sit and pay attention in a way my 5yo can't really yet. Yet because they insisted, we've scheduled a meeting with a child psychologist. It hasn't happened yet but I happened the other day to be at a meeting where there was a psychologist I know. I described what's going on to her and she concluded the same way I have-- that my girl is a healthy normal 3yo.
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I would certainly need a second, and probably third opinion before doing so.

My son is a bit unfocused a lot and talks A LOT(Go figure), so we had him looked at by a child psychologist and discussed with his teacher on what she thought. His teacher said while yes, he had some focus and stamina issues, overall it wasn't bad, and didn't affect his school work too badly. She has been a kinder/1st teacher for going on to 20 years, and says she has seen kids on all ranges of the spectrum. She told us, it's really a personal choice, but medication should be saved for those with much worse issues, and that he'd be fine without being medicated.

She did say that being the way he is won't make him top of the class because he is really intelligent but his lack of focus would keep him from accomplishing at a highest level....for now. But she said, essentially, that is normal, and that he would probably outgrow it. That it might be just his age and maturity level.

So while the doctor may recommend it at a clinical level, I definitely think it's a good idea to involve their teachers and what they think working with a class of the same age kids and how they are succeeding in comparison.
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I'd homeschool my child (so we could have freedom in his/her learning schedule) and try to teach my child in an active/hands on way.. Geometry=building a deck, history=visit monuments or have child read out loud in car on the way,, get them out of the public schools!! After a long time I might try a med (if my kid wanted to) but only "try" it..

To be honest I wouldn't put my kid in public school wether they had adhd or not, "all kids left behind" I wish I didn't have to pay taxes to them,, (but I do realize not all public schools are like the ones in my area, some are pretty good)
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DWTripp wrote:
RSP's liberal, low-intelligence hate-filled shitbags seem to come here for the sole purpose of stalking people they feel threatened by and attacking them.


Is there a single conservative/libertarian RSP poster that DOESN'T stalk and attack people they feel threatened by?

I especially find your charge of "hate-filled" both ironic and amusing.

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black, sheesh.
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whac3 wrote:
99 out of 100 kids IMO who are diagnosed with behavioral problems that need medication just need some personal attention and loving patience. If I were convinced that my child were that 100th child and there were no other way, I'd go ahead and give the kid the drugs but I'd be damned hard to convince.


Stupid. Really, as in the definition of stupid:

Not intelligent or lacking common sense

Is that what they taught you at university professor? That 99 out of 100 kids just need a hug from mom and a friendly wink from dad? 99 out of 100? Got a citation for that Braniac?

For starters, who are you to judge whether or not the parents of a kid who is unable to focus or settle down are not paying attention or that they lack patience? What you're essentially saying is that out of every 100 kids with this problem there is 1 who is actually suffering and there are 198 parents who are useless pieces of shit who have no patience or love and fail to give their child attention.

See why your comment is stupid? The sheer level of pure, unadulterated and unearned arrogance that you, along with several others in this thread, express towards parents you think you're superior to is just staggering. You sure as fuck better be raising the young homo novus of the continuing evolution of mankind in your perfect little angels and they better not ever step out of line, fail to cure cancer or show any incompetence in bringing about world peace and the domination of the entire solar system.

Do you believe that everything in 99 out of 100 kids is caused by inattentive parents who lack loving patience? How about measles? Or the flu? Bed wetting or asthma? Bone cancer or depression? If you have a kid who at 14 starts hurting themselves and voicing thoughts of suicide are you going to apply the same irrefutable and highly scientific logic? That only 1 is really depressed and likely to suicide and the rest just happen to have shitty parents?

I've been at this for a decade now. Hundreds upon hundreds of hours taking my boy to social groups, speech therapy, OT therapy and long hours talking to him, other kids with everything from autism to one kid only having half a fucking brain and others who are seemingly totally normal until you get at least 15 minutes into the conversation and the aberrations become increasingly apparent. These kids are worthy and deserving of more than just some ignorant dismissal of their parents as shitty and a proper spanking to sort them out and help them learn sentence structure or the multiplication tables.

Are there some kids who are suffering ONLY from lack of attention or patience? I'm sure there are. But I'm not so incredibly arrogant to just declare that most kids, or any perceptible percentage of kids who exhibit certain traits are just not being parented properly.

Imagine this - you're wrong. Imagine that medical science and mental health science has advanced so far in the last 100 years that we can now understand why some kids seem to be unteachable or unmanageable? And that our continued expansion and acquisition of knowledge has shown that while many of them overcome the maladies we observe and go on to lead productive and creative lives, that we can add tens of millions more kids to the pool of successful young adults. Imagine this - what if the kid who suffered and overcame had an edge, like the edge new training techniques and diet regimes give athletes... an edge that helped him overcome the non-productive or non muscle building effects of the malady and using that energy and exuberance for growth and the claiming of new knowledge?

Would that be okay? Or do you reject the idea that anything new and more helpful in child rearing has come along since you Torah was written or since the Bible was printed, or since Dr Spock was outed as a brutal child abuser?

12 years ago knew nothing about autism, hyperactivity or other disabilities that kids may suffer from that are generally dismissed as either poor parenting or a natural part of maturing. I was forced by the circumstances of my own child's disability to get up to speed. And it's a steep learning curve. The biggest hurdles are often people like you who deny that there is anything that a hug or a time-out won't fix right up. That' why I compare it to the anti-vac crowd. A mob think steeped in ignorance and the unfettered and endless replication of false data mixed with fear and arrogance and a deep-rooted idea that if your own child is found to be lacking in an area that it is actually a reflection of your own unworthiness as a parent.

It's resentment based on selfishness where one's own self-worth is hinged on how one's child is perceived. Selfish.
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batman wrote:
It depends. Is my kid spamming internet forums with leading questions, mutilated English and the sense of a door knocker?

This kind of vile and unwarranted character assassination has no place in any reasonable discussion. With over 99.99% accuracy, door knockers strike the correct door. By contrast, humans average is, if I remember the figure correctly, only 97% correct performance in routine tasks. Some humans are considerably worse.

Tripp: tl;dr--seriously, you're losing me repeating the same old lamentations. Stick to just the issues: you often make good sense, and I appreciate your opinions; your Jeremiads are beyond boring.


On Topic: I think a some teachers want drugged students so they can use the old paradigm of yammering at a class of helpless zombies.


JustinT1 wrote:
I'd homeschool my child (so we could have freedom in his/her learning schedule) and try to teach my child in an active/hands on way.. Geometry=building a deck, history=visit monuments or have child read out loud in car on the way,, get them out of the public schools!! After a long time I might try a med (if my kid wanted to) but only "try" it..

I realize you're making an extemporaneous comment, but this kind of (excuse me) shallow thinking about home-school education is a real problem. Properly structured, building a deck could teach about trigonometry or structural engineering, but I think most parents would make it about hammering nails; however, geometry is more about learning what a proof is; in a sense, geometry is New Math/Common Core on steroids, lifting up the hood and teaching how to think and how to understand Mathematics' fundamentals (and I certainly think the traditional timing of this is too little, too late in terms of teaching thinking). Visiting historical monuments teaches almost nothing about history, even if the student memorized each monument; most are hagiographies and they usually are a pinhole in History, unconnected to other events, causes, the society of the time, Economics (which drives much of History), etc.

JustinT1 wrote:
To be honest I wouldn't put my kid in public school wether...

Baa!!!!
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Tall_Walt wrote:

JustinT1 wrote:
I'd homeschool my child (so we could have freedom in his/her learning schedule) and try to teach my child in an active/hands on way.. Geometry=building a deck,

I realize you're making an extemporaneous comment, but this kind of (excuse me) shallow thinking about home-school education is a real problem. Properly structured, building a deck could teach about trigonometry or structural engineering, but I think most parents would make it about hammering nails;


You have it all wrong. Justin isn't doing backyard construction with his kid. He's having his kid build a competitive MtG deck.

Still don't know what it has to do with geometry, but...
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Shampoo4you wrote:
DWTripp wrote:
RSP's liberal, low-intelligence hate-filled shitbags seem to come here for the sole purpose of stalking people they feel threatened by and attacking them.


Is there a single conservative/libertarian RSP poster that DOESN'T stalk and attack people they feel threatened by?

I especially find your charge of "hate-filled" both ironic and amusing.

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black, sheesh.


I do it for you and those like you. As long as you enjoy it then congrats. If you begin to find it wearying then Aldie has provided you with a tool to eliminate the irony totally.

Is this place great? Or what?

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I totally agree with what Tripp said above. Weird.
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DWTripp wrote:
Shampoo4you wrote:
DWTripp wrote:
RSP's liberal, low-intelligence hate-filled shitbags seem to come here for the sole purpose of stalking people they feel threatened by and attacking them.


Is there a single conservative/libertarian RSP poster that DOESN'T stalk and attack people they feel threatened by?

I especially find your charge of "hate-filled" both ironic and amusing.

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black, sheesh.


I do it for you and those like you. As long as you enjoy it then congrats. If you begin to find it wearying then Aldie has provided you with a tool to eliminate the irony totally.

Is this place great? Or what?



Of course you amuse me, darlin. That's why I haven't blocked you.
 
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TheDashi wrote:
Was deemed to be hyperactive and a doctor told you to put your, say eight year old, on drugs to calm them down.... would you?


Well, I'd have to do a few things:

If a medical doctor told me to do that, I would bring them to a psychologist, who I'd also have to determine wasn't a shitty psychologist. If they were great, I'd listen to them, if they were so-so, I'd get a second opinion, prolly from a psychiatrist. (Although if they were great, they'd probably tell me to get a second opinion anyway.)

Assuming "calm them down" means "treat ADHD."

It does look like the ADHD misdiagnosis thing might be more popular opinion than reality, but I don't really know enough to say. Honestly, if your kid does significantly better in school on amphetamines (e.g., Ritalin,) and the side effects are worth it to them (and you,) go for it.
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