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Subject: Ships Limited Edition is now available at CSI - Hurry up before it is gone! rss

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Oscar Garcia
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http://www.coolstuffinc.com/p/220967
 
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Darrell Hanning
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Lovely.

Here I am, not 90 miles from Orlando, and I still haven't received my subscription copy yet, but I can drive for an hour-and-a-half, and pick it up from an outfit who never paid a nickel to help get the game printed in the first place.

Something's wrong with this picture.
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Kolby Reddish
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It's still on preorder through them. No one will have it for a few weeks.
 
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The Dave
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DarrellKH wrote:
Lovely.

Here I am, not 90 miles from Orlando, and I still haven't received my subscription copy yet, but I can drive for an hour-and-a-half, and pick it up from an outfit who never paid a nickel to help get the game printed in the first place.

Something's wrong with this picture.


Easy hard-charger. Did you read any of the updates where Martin said that CSI basically put up some capital to help get the games (2014 subscription) published and in return they are now the exclusive distributor of those games in the US?

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Jon Pessano
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reddish22 wrote:
It's still on preorder through them. No one will have it for a few weeks.


Well if that is the case then CSI is shipping me an empty box!

According to FedEx I have a package from CSI that shipped yesterday (Oct 15th).

Thx
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Darrell Hanning
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whattheproblemis wrote:
DarrellKH wrote:
Lovely.

Here I am, not 90 miles from Orlando, and I still haven't received my subscription copy yet, but I can drive for an hour-and-a-half, and pick it up from an outfit who never paid a nickel to help get the game printed in the first place.

Something's wrong with this picture.


Easy hard-charger. Did you read any of the updates where Martin said that CSI basically put up some capital to help get the games (2014 subscription) published and in return they are now the exclusive distributor of those games in the US?



I did.

What I did not see is where CSI wod have it before subscribers.

That still ain't right.
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Darrell Hanning
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DarrellKH wrote:
whattheproblemis wrote:
DarrellKH wrote:
Lovely.

Here I am, not 90 miles from Orlando, and I still haven't received my subscription copy yet, but I can drive for an hour-and-a-half, and pick it up from an outfit who never paid a nickel to help get the game printed in the first place.

Something's wrong with this picture.


Easy hard-charger. Did you read any of the updates where Martin said that CSI basically put up some capital to help get the games (2014 subscription) published and in return they are now the exclusive distributor of those games in the US?



I did.

What I did not see is where CSI would get to sell it before subscribers get theirs.

That still ain't right.
 
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The Dave
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DarrellKH wrote:
DarrellKH wrote:
whattheproblemis wrote:
DarrellKH wrote:
Lovely.

Here I am, not 90 miles from Orlando, and I still haven't received my subscription copy yet, but I can drive for an hour-and-a-half, and pick it up from an outfit who never paid a nickel to help get the game printed in the first place.

Something's wrong with this picture.


Easy hard-charger. Did you read any of the updates where Martin said that CSI basically put up some capital to help get the games (2014 subscription) published and in return they are now the exclusive distributor of those games in the US?



I did.

What I did not see is where CSI would get to sell it before subscribers get theirs.


That still ain't right.


CSI was basically the largest subscriber there was. They spent more to get the game published than you or I did by a large margin.

This is no different than if you had subscribed for, say - 500 copies of the game and then when treefrog had the games delivered to you, you sold them to whoever wanted them. You, as a subscriber, got your games before the people that bought them from you (the nonsubscribers).

I don't understand what you're angry about.
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john guthrie
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whattheproblemis wrote:

CSI was basically the largest subscriber there was. They spent more to get the game published than you or I did by a large margin.



well, if you put it that way, i'm agin it. do other KS projects ship to their subscribers with multiple orders first?

EDIT: oops, i forgot this wasn't KS. same difference though
 
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The Dave
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grafpoo wrote:
whattheproblemis wrote:

CSI was basically the largest subscriber there was. They spent more to get the game published than you or I did by a large margin.



well, if you put it that way, i'm agin it. do other KS projects ship to their subscribers with multiple orders first?

EDIT: oops, i forgot this wasn't KS. same difference though


Treefrog never claimed that subscribers would get theirs first. What they claimed is that subscribers would be guaranteed a copy of the limited deluxe edition for each game. They also said that once the game was published, a certain number would be available for sell through distributors worldwide and at Essen... with no mention as to the timing for those sales vs. subscribers.

This wasn't a KS. There was no guarantee. I don't understand why people are upset about this.

http://www.treefroggames.com/subscriptions-2014
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john guthrie
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whattheproblemis wrote:

Treefrog never claimed that subscribers would get theirs first. What they claimed is that subscribers would be guaranteed a copy of the limited deluxe edition for each game. They also said that once the game was published, a certain number would be available for sell through distributors worldwide and at Essen... with no mention as to the timing for those sales vs. subscribers.


true. but it is kind of disappointing that there was nothing at all beyond the guaranteed copy of what have so far turned out to be some fairly mediocre games.

i should have stayed out of this conversation though, because i am not bothered about CSI shipping Ships orders at the same time - at least, i hope it's at the same time
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whattheproblemis wrote:
DarrellKH wrote:
DarrellKH wrote:
whattheproblemis wrote:
DarrellKH wrote:
Lovely.

Here I am, not 90 miles from Orlando, and I still haven't received my subscription copy yet, but I can drive for an hour-and-a-half, and pick it up from an outfit who never paid a nickel to help get the game printed in the first place.

Something's wrong with this picture.


Easy hard-charger. Did you read any of the updates where Martin said that CSI basically put up some capital to help get the games (2014 subscription) published and in return they are now the exclusive distributor of those games in the US?



I did.

What I did not see is where CSI would get to sell it before subscribers get theirs.


That still ain't right.


CSI was basically the largest subscriber there was. They spent more to get the game published than you or I did by a large margin.

This is no different than if you had subscribed for, say - 500 copies of the game and then when treefrog had the games delivered to you, you sold them to whoever wanted them. You, as a subscriber, got your games before the people that bought them from you (the nonsubscribers).

I don't understand what you're angry about.


Because they will make a healthy profit on the deal, where as the subscribers are receiving product paid for At Full Price many months in advance?

Treefrog can go **** up a tree in my book, they have treated their subscribers with contempt from start to finish. Glad to see that Wallace is going back to game design, instead of running a company, a task that he neither enjoys nor is much good at.
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Be aware that according to the person I spoke to at CSI, this does not include the separate bag of gold tokens to replace the smaller orange tokens (apparently easily confused with the yellow player tokens) that was included in limited editions from Essen.

They were, understandably, unwilling to open a box to see if they had actually been included and the box reshrinked.
 
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The Dave
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DainHarper wrote:
whattheproblemis wrote:
DarrellKH wrote:
DarrellKH wrote:
whattheproblemis wrote:
DarrellKH wrote:
Lovely.

Here I am, not 90 miles from Orlando, and I still haven't received my subscription copy yet, but I can drive for an hour-and-a-half, and pick it up from an outfit who never paid a nickel to help get the game printed in the first place.

Something's wrong with this picture.


Easy hard-charger. Did you read any of the updates where Martin said that CSI basically put up some capital to help get the games (2014 subscription) published and in return they are now the exclusive distributor of those games in the US?



I did.

What I did not see is where CSI would get to sell it before subscribers get theirs.


That still ain't right.


CSI was basically the largest subscriber there was. They spent more to get the game published than you or I did by a large margin.

This is no different than if you had subscribed for, say - 500 copies of the game and then when treefrog had the games delivered to you, you sold them to whoever wanted them. You, as a subscriber, got your games before the people that bought them from you (the nonsubscribers).

I don't understand what you're angry about.


Because they will make a healthy profit on the deal, where as the subscribers are receiving product paid for At Full Price many months in advance?

Treefrog can go **** up a tree in my book, they have treated their subscribers with contempt from start to finish. Glad to see that Wallace is going back to game design, instead of running a company, a task that he neither enjoys nor is much good at.


I suppose that's a valid point, but at the same time, I put up $200 for 3 games. I wonder how much CSI put up (so that the games could be published) to make it worth Treefrog giving them exclusive distribution rights in America.

Also, I don't want to conflate the issue. I am defending CSI (especially from the post that said they didn't put up a nickel to help get the game printed, which is completely false), not necessarily treefrog.
 
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Darrell Hanning
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whattheproblemis wrote:
DarrellKH wrote:
DarrellKH wrote:
whattheproblemis wrote:
DarrellKH wrote:
Lovely.

Here I am, not 90 miles from Orlando, and I still haven't received my subscription copy yet, but I can drive for an hour-and-a-half, and pick it up from an outfit who never paid a nickel to help get the game printed in the first place.

Something's wrong with this picture.


Easy hard-charger. Did you read any of the updates where Martin said that CSI basically put up some capital to help get the games (2014 subscription) published and in return they are now the exclusive distributor of those games in the US?



I did.

What I did not see is where CSI would get to sell it before subscribers get theirs.


That still ain't right.


CSI was basically the largest subscriber there was. They spent more to get the game published than you or I did by a large margin.

This is no different than if you had subscribed for, say - 500 copies of the game and then when treefrog had the games delivered to you, you sold them to whoever wanted them. You, as a subscriber, got your games before the people that bought them from you (the nonsubscribers).

I don't understand what you're angry about.


I think you're confused - I'm not angry. I'm just not happy. There is a vast spectrum of emotion between the two.

No, this is not the same. I didn't buy the game from CSI. I didn't send my money to CSI. The money went to TreeFrog.

But as it stands now, I have zero incentive to buy subscriptions from TreeFrog. I guess it's a good thing they're not going to do that anymore, as they broke the incentive model by doing this.
 
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grafpoo wrote:
whattheproblemis wrote:

CSI was basically the largest subscriber there was. They spent more to get the game published than you or I did by a large margin.



well, if you put it that way, i'm agin it. do other KS projects ship to their subscribers with multiple orders first?

EDIT: oops, i forgot this wasn't KS. same difference though


I've definitely seen some Kickstarters that ship to their retail or bulk supporters first.

The thing is, it's not necessarily preferential treatment as much as expediency. Games are shipped from overseas on large pallets. If you can simply ship a pallet or even a crate to a customer without having to break down the pallet, open the crate, pull the individual box, rebox it, label it, and THEN ship it . . . well, it just makes good sense. "Good sense" in the very real sense that you get that giant thing blocking the warehouse the hell out of there to make way for the workers doing all that tedious work I just described.

To wit: it happens, and there are actual good reasons for it beyond, "that person or organization gave me more money than that other person or organization."
 
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DarrellKH wrote:
whattheproblemis wrote:
DarrellKH wrote:
DarrellKH wrote:
whattheproblemis wrote:
DarrellKH wrote:
Lovely.

Here I am, not 90 miles from Orlando, and I still haven't received my subscription copy yet, but I can drive for an hour-and-a-half, and pick it up from an outfit who never paid a nickel to help get the game printed in the first place.

Something's wrong with this picture.


Easy hard-charger. Did you read any of the updates where Martin said that CSI basically put up some capital to help get the games (2014 subscription) published and in return they are now the exclusive distributor of those games in the US?



I did.

What I did not see is where CSI would get to sell it before subscribers get theirs.


That still ain't right.


CSI was basically the largest subscriber there was. They spent more to get the game published than you or I did by a large margin.

This is no different than if you had subscribed for, say - 500 copies of the game and then when treefrog had the games delivered to you, you sold them to whoever wanted them. You, as a subscriber, got your games before the people that bought them from you (the nonsubscribers).

I don't understand what you're angry about.


I think you're confused - I'm not angry. I'm just not happy. There is a vast spectrum of emotion between the two.

No, this is not the same. I didn't buy the game from CSI. I didn't send my money to CSI. The money went to TreeFrog.

But as it stands now, I have zero incentive to buy subscriptions from TreeFrog. I guess it's a good thing they're not going to do that anymore, as they broke the incentive model by doing this.


I shouldn't have assumed any emotion on your part - I apologize for that.

But to your point, CSI also sent money to Treefrog. They got games for that. Are you suggesting that CSI shouldn't be allowed to sell games they purchased? I can understand having an issue with Treefrog for - I dunno, mishandling the subscriptions so they needed to go to CSI in the first place.

But CSI is in the clear, as far as I'm concerned. Treefrog needed capital to finish publishing the games. CSI provided that, and in return gained privilege as sole distributor for the games in America. But Treefrog never promised that any subscriber would get games before the games hit retail. That was never part of the deal.

Again, I'm not sure whattheproblemis.
 
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john guthrie
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whattheproblemis wrote:


But CSI is in the clear, as far as I'm concerned. Treefrog needed capital to finish publishing the games. CSI provided that, and in return gained privilege as sole distributor for the games in America. But Treefrog never promised that any subscriber would get games before the games hit retail. That was never part of the deal.

Again, I'm not sure whattheproblemis.


CSI is also the shipper here though. if they are not shipping the subscriber games yet but are selling and shipping their own copies that's kind of weasely (sp?)

and again, just because they bought more copies than anyone else doesn't, in my mind, mean that much. they probably have more money to spend on games than most of the subscribers.

and i guess treefrog didn't say when they'd ship the games to subscribers at all, really. if they waited a few years would that be okay?
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As a subscriber did people not get the same email that I did? The printing company screwed up and the gold pieces in the deluxe edition did not come out correctly as ordered. Treefrog only found this out when they received their Essen order. Martin thought rightly that the deluxe version should have proper components and demanded the printing company fix it. So we the backers are getting this issue fixed. Our versions of the game will come with the proper coins.

Doesn't anyone remember how much people complained over poster gate for a study of emerald? That was just a free poster and not a component of the game. Perhaps buyers of the csi version can contact Wallace for new parts but that will be more hoop jumping. I for one am happy to be getting it late, but with the correct pieces.
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I got replacement parts for Onward to Venus very easily and quickly considering they came from Europe (France or Germany? Can't remember).

No doubt that same courtesy will be extended to purchasers of the LE.

As of this most recent email it was always intended subscribers should receive their orders before normal purchases went out. It was the same with OtV and Mythotopia. Regardless, it's not something to get frustrated with at this point. It's been ~17 months since we paid. An extra week is not something to get stressed out over.
 
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And an email update from Treefrog:

"SHIPS Update
Yet another issue. We had an arrangement with someone at CSI in the US to deal with shipping your games out. This person has since left the company and apparently did not hand over information on our behalf regarding the shipping out of the games for you. This only came to light in the last couple of days. The Treefrog subscription games arrived at CSI (along with copies that they had ordered and paid for) but with no instructions to do otherwise, they began selling them.

I have emailed them urgently to stop selling as the limited edition games are minus the extra bag of gold coins and the signed sticker, and they should send out the subscriber copies first as previously arranged.

I am so incredibly sorry for this problem, thanks to the folk who have flagged it up to me and I am dealing with it the best that I can.

You are all so amazing and your support over the years has kept us sane at points!

UK, Europe and rest of the world copies should begin to leave Spiral Galaxy Games at the beginning of next week, (with gold coins and stickers)

Huge thanks

Julia"

Maybe people should take a deep breath before the get outraged so quickly. This issue had nothing to do with Treefrog and quite frankly this kind of thing happens all the time so I don't blame coolstuff. One person leaves and the new person doesn't know everything, hasn't gotten up to speed, and doesn't know the deals that were previously made by older personal. Even if this deal was written, if the new person didn't read all the paper work this is the result. Honestly, it just seems like the stars are not aligned for Wallace. Everything that could go wrong has, but I don't blame him.
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What a cockup. I hope my copy hasn't been sold off already. It may take weeks to sort stuff out which means, just like with Emerald, I'll get my backer copy long after people get theirs from retail.

Whoever is at fault here, it's a good thing Treefrog are discontinuing any sort of publishing.
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enzo622 wrote:
What a cockup. I hope my copy hasn't been sold off already. It may take weeks to sort stuff out which means, just like with Emerald, I'll get my backer copy long after people get theirs from retail.

Whoever is at fault here, it's a good thing Treefrog are discontinuing any sort of publishing.


At what point did you glean from any of the posts that your copy might have been sold? How is this mistake at any point Treefrogs? If the company hired to make the product makes a mistake and Treefrog gets replacement pieces and tells coolstuff not to sell the game till the replacement pieces come how is this and issue.

Please everyone. Do me and yourself a favor. Read the BGG threads from 2005-2007. These errors are not new and not unique to Treefrog. Several games didn't make it on time to Essen this year or didn't make it at all. Several other games had printer problems. This happens all the time, and I mean all the time. Boardgame companies really have very few choices to print games and even the best companies like Ludofact make mistakes...its kind of human. All of these companies generally make things up to their customers so everyone take a deep breathe.
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johnnyspys wrote:
enzo622 wrote:
What a cockup. I hope my copy hasn't been sold off already. It may take weeks to sort stuff out which means, just like with Emerald, I'll get my backer copy long after people get theirs from retail.

Whoever is at fault here, it's a good thing Treefrog are discontinuing any sort of publishing.


At what point did you glean from any of the posts that your copy might have been sold? How is this mistake at any point Treefrogs? If the company hired to make the product makes a mistake and Treefrog gets replacement pieces and tells coolstuff not to sell the game till the replacement pieces come how is this and issue.

Please everyone. Do me and yourself a favor. Read the BGG threads from 2005-2007. These errors are not new and not unique to Treefrog. Several games didn't make it on time to Essen this year or didn't make it at all. Several other games had printer problems. This happens all the time, and I mean all the time. Boardgame companies really have very few choices to print games and even the best companies like Ludofact make mistakes...its kind of human. All of these companies generally make things up to their customers so everyone take a deep breathe.

My breathing is fine, I can assure you.

OK, two pieces to this. First, here's where I gleaned that:

"We had an arrangement with someone at CSI in the US to deal with shipping your games out. This person has since left the company and apparently did not hand over information ... but with no instructions to do otherwise, they began selling them."

So I gleaned that they're selling some of the LE games. They could have sold so many LEs that there aren't enough to go to backers. I'm not claiming that, but saying "I hope not." See: cockup.

Secondly, I didn't say it was Treefrog's fault, did I? I did say it's a good thing they're getting out of the publishing business. I've seen enough from them to know it's not their strong suit whether or not they're blameless here.

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johnnyspys wrote:
... and quite frankly this kind of thing happens all the time so I don't blame coolstuff.


i don't believe this sort of thing happens all the time
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