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Shadows of Brimstone: City of the Ancients» Forums » Rules

Subject: Gunpowder Keg Question rss

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Nacho Fist
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Good day everyone. My group has run into a question, and I thought it best to turn to this forum for an answer.

I don't have the card in front of me at the moment so I will attempt to explain as best as possible.

The gunpowder keg is thrown like dynamite, and deals 2 peril die of damage to those that are hit/adjacent. Then it says each other model in the room takes 2 hits.

The question is... do the hits both deal d6 damage or just a single damage each?

For example, if a Night Terror is hit with the two hits would you roll a d6 for both, add them together, and then subtract the night terror's defense for damage?

Alternatively for a hero, would you roll 2 defense rolls? Then each failed defense roll is d6 damage?

Thank you!!
 
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Brock Poulsen
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If it says 2 hits, that's a max of two wounds. So each hero would roll 2 dice in defense.
 
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Jee Fu
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If that's the exact wording, it also means that monsters will take Hits as well. Although, they would have to have 0 Defense in order for those Hits to do any damage since they each deal 1 Wound.

Maybe you can crush some spiders with it.

- Jee
 
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Nacho Fist
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Thanks a lot guys... we currently are holding 2 gunpowder kegs on our team, and have been waiting to use them due to arguments about this. I agree with you, but other team members were convinced the 2 hits equated to d6 damage each.

Hopefully this ends the debate!
 
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Jee Fu
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Deep_Purple wrote:
Thanks a lot guys... we currently are holding 2 gunpowder kegs on our team, and have been waiting to use them due to arguments about this. I agree with you, but other team members were convinced the 2 hits equated to d6 damage each.

Hopefully this ends the debate!

They still might be right! Generally speaking, Hits caused by players' attacks do D6 damage each (defense not included). It's only non-Hero-generated Hits that have a default of 1 damage. It's hard to tell what these count as since it originates via a Hero's Attack, but is kind of a side-effect. I would need to the exact wording to make a proper call.

- Jee
 
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Justin Parker
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Hits are Hits.

I play it that if it is against a hero, the hero will roll defense against each. If the hit is against a monster you roll for damage for each die.
 
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Jee Fu
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jparkerweb wrote:
Hits are Hits.

I play it that if it is against a hero, the hero will roll defense against each. If the hit is against a monster you roll for damage for each die.

Heroes get Defense rolls for sure; the question is how much damage are they going to take if they miss those rolls. 1 Damage is standard, but D6 is standard when the Hit comes from a Hero Attack, which the Gunpowder Keg arguably is.

I'm actually leaning toward D6 for each Hit, to all models in the room. Defense applies, so Heroes get 2 Defense rolls each and take D6 Wounds for each failure; and monsters take 2D6 Wounds, minus their Defense x 2 (once for each Hit).

- Jee
 
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Craig Bocketti
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Gunpowder Keg

Exact wording:

Discard to throw, just like Dynamite. After any Bounce, any models in the same and adjacent space take "Peril die" wounds, ignoring Defense. Any other models on the same Map Tile take two Hits from falling debris.
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Angelus Seniores
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the hits from fallen debris would be just 1 damage each as they are from a non-hero source, so monsters with 2 or more defense would be unaffected by it
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Jee Fu
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Thanks for posting the exact wording. Given this:

I could see an argument either way, but now I'm leaning towards Angel's read, above.

"Falling debris" sounds reactionary and side-effect-y; i.e. not an intended consequence of the Attack. It also shares thematics with the Depth Event of a similar name, and those Hits are 1 damage a piece. Also, its unlikely that FFP intended the secondary effect to be so close in damage potential to the main effect. So, I think the 2 post-Hits are both 1 damage Hits.

Also, it opens up cool synergies with effects that lower monster defense, such as the Sermon Weaken. Need to crush a hellbat with debris from a keg, but unable to due to its 2 Defense? Weaken. Ka-Boom.

- Jee
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Joe Price
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We played it as hero originated hits. The basic blast ignore defense, while the extra doesn't. For basic dynamite, if the blast hits a hero, then it doesn't do 1 hit worth 1 wound, it does 1 hit worth 1D6 wounds.

As for the rockfall event, it doesn't affect monsters, only heroes. And it isn't triggered by hero action (based on the argument that darkness rolls aren't grittable and that grittable rolls are things directly affected by the hero) plus it does 1D6 hits worth 1 each, not 1 hit worth 1D6 hits.

A flat 1D6 roll still only wounds a defense 3 monster half the time. One hit wounds most heroes half the time. That makes it even in my mind. The other way serious underpowers the danger of the extra hits to the heroes on the same tile.
 
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Finn K
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mustardayonnaiz wrote:
Gunpowder Keg

Exact wording:

Discard to throw, just like Dynamite. After any Bounce, any models in the same and adjacent space take "Peril die" wounds, ignoring Defense. Any other models on the same Map Tile take two Hits from falling debris.


rpvt wrote:
We played it as hero originated hits. The basic blast ignore defense, while the extra doesn't. For basic dynamite, if the blast hits a hero, then it doesn't do 1 hit worth 1 wound, it does 1 hit worth 1D6 wounds.

As for the rockfall event, it doesn't affect monsters, only heroes. And it isn't triggered by hero action (based on the argument that darkness rolls aren't grittable and that grittable rolls are things directly affected by the hero) plus it does 1D6 hits worth 1 each, not 1 hit worth 1D6 hits.

A flat 1D6 roll still only wounds a defense 3 monster half the time. One hit wounds most heroes half the time. That makes it even in my mind. The other way serious underpowers the danger of the extra hits to the heroes on the same tile.


Actually based on the exact wording above I would disagree with this statement. First off the gunpowder keg does wounds as primary damage not hits, same as dynamite, per rules on page 25 in rule book.

The third sentence states, any other model which would include both heroes and enemies, hence it applies to both. This is similar to the wording for dynamite, each model in the same and adjacent spaces to it (model makes no distinction between heroes or enemy per the glossary in the back of adventure book).

According to rule book page 15:

Quote:
Each Hit that is not prevented does 1 Wound unless stated otherwise.


Since this card does not specify damage for the hits, this rule as written indicate that all models take 2 hits each for a wound, enemies with 1 or better defense would be unaffected, and heroes can use defense to avoid the hit, and if it goes through can use armor against each wound (2).
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Jason Hill
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Hey Guys,

When a Hero takes a Hit, they make a Defense roll to prevent it, and if failed, take 1 Wound (unless specified otherwise). When an Enemy takes a Hit, it does not get a Defense roll, but rather the Hit does D6 Damage and then the Enemy subtracts its Defense from the total to see how many Wounds it takes.

The reason the Damage is different for a default 'Hit' between Heroes (1 Damage) and Enemies (D6 Damage) is because of the way that Defense works differently for each of them.

Hope that helps. Happy Gaming!

-Jason
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Derek VDG
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jchill7 wrote:

Hey Guys,

When a Hero takes a Hit, they make a Defense roll to prevent it, and if failed, take 1 Wound (unless specified otherwise). When an Enemy takes a Hit, it does not get a Defense roll, but rather the Hit does D6 Damage and then the Enemy subtracts its Defense from the total to see how many Wounds it takes.

The reason the Damage is different for a default 'Hit' between Heroes (1 Damage) and Enemies (D6 Damage) is because of the way that Defense works differently for each of them.

Hope that helps. Happy Gaming!

-Jason


Awesome, thanks for answering Jason! So, "default" damage against Heroes is 1, and "default" against monsters is d6. Makes sense.
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Nacho Fist
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I appreciate the information Jason!

Glad I can finally put this one to rest. It has long been a source of debate with my team!
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