Recommend
21 
 Thumb up
 Hide
10 Posts

Shadows of Brimstone: City of the Ancients» Forums » General

Subject: A thank-you and request to FFP rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Adam Mitchell
United States
Unspecified
Unspecified
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I've always enjoyed the Brimstone game, but I've enjoyed it much more since getting the GenCon enemies. Thank you very much for making them so wonderfully varied, with TWO separate spell decks, and so enjoyably dangerous! I was especially impressed by the introduction of the Endurance trait, Armor upgrade Elite abilities and hits which ignore Hero defense rolls. These things do much to address the single problem cited by some players, which is insufficient combat difficulty.

I wanted to encourage you to keep up the great work and ask you to please make the coming Enemies even worse! There are lots of extremely powerful Gear and Artifact cards, and getting a +5 or so damage to a Hero's hits is quite possible even at 4th level, as our group has proven. So I'm asking you to please make the Wave 2.0 Enemies even tougher and more powerful than the GenCon ones, ESPECIALLY the Brutal sides! By 5th level most Heroes have tremendous damaging and protective abilities, and the Brutal Enemies have to be truly mighty to even begin to challenge the players. So please, go ahead and hit us with the worst stuff you can dream up in our future Enemies; we can take it!

If you agree with my request to make the Wave 2.0 enemies even more lethal than those in 1.5, please upvote this post. Thanks!
38 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dave Cain
Scotland
flag msg tools
Absolutely - the tougher the better!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tim Robinson
United States
Reno
Nevada
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Perfectly said! I want to be sick to my stomach out of fear when I place monsters on to the board.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Olaf Polly
United States
Dayton
Ohio
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Well, the problem with making new enemies tougher is that the original core set beasties will be useless. I much prefer changing the difficulty by increasing all enemy HP/Hits/etc. This way even the spiders become more of a challenge.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
If the core box enemies don't quite cut it, they could always release an updated set of cards with slightly tougher stats on them.

Of course, players are always free to do this to fit their desires. Play against enemies from a tier higher than you should (add an extra elite ability, or draw from a higher tier threat deck, add to their damage value, boost their combat die, etc).

Hell, start on Brutal foes a couple of levels early. That'll put an emphasis on teamwork for sure. Or add +1 of each enemy type when spawning foes, etc.

Basically, I don't disagree that some enemies are less fear inspiring than others, but at the same time, adjusting enemies to a proper level of difficulty that suits the needs of thousands (tens of thousands?) of play groups around the world is probably impossible. A series of guidelines might be better. "if you think the game is too easy, do X, if you think the game is better played by babies, do X, Y, and gird your loins for Z if you think you pack the sacks/ovaries to really go for the gold".

Plus, having some enemies that are easier than others isn't a bad thing for lower level/starting off groups. Once everyone has a dozen missions under their belts and gear/levels to match, sure things are easier. But at level 1, with barely more than starting gear on the team? Even a bunch of void spiders and stranglers can be pretty terrifying, especially when the dice (yours or theirs) turn on you. The elements of randomness present already can skew things considerably, if not necessarily dramatically enough for everyone's liking (he says as someone who watched 3 people die on the starting tile due to a couple of ambushes piling up on level 1 characters).
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ondrej Kocnar
Czech Republic
Prague
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Forar wrote:
If the core box enemies don't quite cut it, they could always release an updated set of cards with slightly tougher stats on them.

Of course, players are always free to do this to fit their desires. Play against enemies from a tier higher than you should (add an extra elite ability, or draw from a higher tier threat deck, add to their damage value, boost their combat die, etc).

Hell, start on Brutal foes a couple of levels early. That'll put an emphasis on teamwork for sure. Or add +1 of each enemy type when spawning foes, etc.

Basically, I don't disagree that some enemies are less fear inspiring than others, but at the same time, adjusting enemies to a proper level of difficulty that suits the needs of thousands (tens of thousands?) of play groups around the world is probably impossible. A series of guidelines might be better. "if you think the game is too easy, do X, if you think the game is better played by babies, do X, Y, and gird your loins for Z if you think you pack the sacks/ovaries to really go for the gold".

Plus, having some enemies that are easier than others isn't a bad thing for lower level/starting off groups. Once everyone has a dozen missions under their belts and gear/levels to match, sure things are easier. But at level 1, with barely more than starting gear on the team? Even a bunch of void spiders and stranglers can be pretty terrifying, especially when the dice (yours or theirs) turn on you. The elements of randomness present already can skew things considerably, if not necessarily dramatically enough for everyone's liking (he says as someone who watched 3 people die on the starting tile due to a couple of ambushes piling up on level 1 characters).


Well, as you note the problem is not enemies power, but that enemies tend to "level up" slowly than heroes. I bet the OP did not test the new enemies at the level 1. On the first level the difficulty is about OK.
But I think that common knowledge is that heroes tend get stronger than enemies later on.
Better and more consistent elite upgrades would help a lot.

I hope that after FFP end the expansion material craze they will start to rebalance the game. I am discouraged that even new enemies still seem to have rather bugged up upgrades.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Adam Mitchell
United States
Unspecified
Unspecified
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Opaliy, the original core set of monsters won't be useless if future monsters are tougher; they'll be exactly the same as they are now. If the core set monsters were useless against your level 4 heroes before, they'll STILL be useless, whatever the new monsters are like. Furthermore, the base set monsters are pretty good for starting heroes. It's only later on that you need tougher and better beasties.

Forar, I don't think that's really a feasible or realistic option. The poor guys at FFP have already made it clear that they kind of got carried away in their exuberance and bit off more than they could chew in coming up with stuff for the Brimstone Kickstarter. Now they're having to devote more time than they expected to SoB development, not to mention all of the other games they're working on. I'm guessing there's no way they could possibly afford the playtesting time for making up tougher stats for original creatures or difficulty guidelines, ESPECIALLY when doing so would bring in no new profit! Remember, they're a company selling a product, not our private servants.

The new monsters, on the other hand, need to be developed in any case, and FFP has nothing to lose and some to gain by listening to their consumers who long for more deadly opponents to face their immensely powerful 4th level+ characters.

I've been on this board for awhile, and the gameplay complaint I hear by far the most often is that once you get to Level 3 or 4, the combat challenge goes out of the game (which is essentially what the game is BASED on!!!). I mean, look at all the upvotes I got on my original post asking for more challenging monsters! I would go so far as to say that a majority of veteran SoB players long for monsters which have the potential to CRUSH us, in spite of all our fancy gear!

For example, take the upcoming Succubi, and after you've made them as you like, throw in this: "Seductive Aura: When a Hero assigns one or more Hits to a Succubus, that Hero must make an immediate Spirit 6+ test. If the test is failed, the Succubus suffers no Hits and the Hero's turn immediately ends, with all remaining Hits being lost."

Or the let's talk about the Hellcannon. Why not give it Initiative 4, Defense 5, 20 Health, Tough, hits on a 4+, target receives 4 Peril dice damage ignoring Defense and Armor, and all adjacent models suffer 2 Peril dice of damage ignoring Defense?

Or if they do decide to make a tank for Trederra, one poster had the excellent idea of giving it Endurance 1, meaning you'd have to spend at least a couple of turns hitting it while it fires it's turret gun at you.

As in Touch of Evil, FFP has done a fantastic job of coming up with cool and potent gear, but also as in ToE, they have failed to make the Enemies sufficiently strong to compensate.

As I wrote above, FFP is company selling a product, and right now a fair number of their current customers really want more challenging enemies. If you make them, FFP, we WILL buy, and we'll be more than glad to do so! The GenCon foes were a big step in the right direction, but much farther remains to go, in my opinion and that of others.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Finn K
United States
Texas
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
The way to balance this is to make normal side about the same difficulty but make the elite abilities stronger. Or add a modifier, such as +2 health per elite as a basic elite side affect. The brutal side should definitely be made more brutal however.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Njorl
United States
Rhode Island
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
hiakeem wrote:
The way to balance this is to make normal side about the same difficulty but make the elite abilities stronger. Or add a modifier, such as +2 health per elite as a basic elite side affect. The brutal side should definitely be made more brutal however.


This really makes me wonder if it is too easy to remove darkness effects. They seem okay, but if you have the Marshal, Priest, Lawman, Occult book, some ring thingy as well, it becomes easy to eventually chip away at the darkness. Without these, the bonuses pile up quickly, and pretty soon all void enemies are +2 defense and demons are +2 to combat. Maybe some better darkness effects would be cool too. When I play it is really rare that the Growing Dread take effect as well.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ondrej Kocnar
Czech Republic
Prague
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
njep wrote:
hiakeem wrote:
The way to balance this is to make normal side about the same difficulty but make the elite abilities stronger. Or add a modifier, such as +2 health per elite as a basic elite side affect. The brutal side should definitely be made more brutal however.


This really makes me wonder if it is too easy to remove darkness effects. They seem okay, but if you have the Marshal, Priest, Lawman, Occult book, some ring thingy as well, it becomes easy to eventually chip away at the darkness. Without these, the bonuses pile up quickly, and pretty soon all void enemies are +2 defense and demons are +2 to combat. Maybe some better darkness effects would be cool too. When I play it is really rare that the Growing Dread take effect as well.


I think that main reason are simply the weak and inconsistent elite abilities.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.