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Enemy Action: Ardennes» Forums » Rules

Subject: GS:Retreat paths and overstacking rss

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George Triantafyllidis
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During my current game i reach this situation where a battle is taking place in Malmedy.A combined attack against the surrounded defending 504th.

The battle results in 5 total hits for the defender(effectively 4 since in town).There are 3 units in the 504th with 6 steps in total.On the NW there is a retreating path via an Allied controlled bridge and NE 2 friendly supplied units in enemy ZOC.

Before applying the results though i would like to share my thoughts with you.And i explain myself:

Is the retreat priority path in this case the NE one as the rules suggest? I ask because there is a big chance the the hex will end up overstacked.During the retreat stacking limits do not apply but what if the combat results to an only one hex retreat? The fact that this is not mentioned in the rules(the rules explain only what happens if German units end up violating the stacking limits) and the fact that there is a rule that suggests to take a retreat path from a lesser priority to avoid elimination of units makes me think that in this situation the NW retreat path becomes the priority.

What about the initial Hold check in Malmedy.There is a +4 modifier that applies in the case that all retreat paths lead to an extra step lose through enemy controlled hexes.Will this apply? If practically the only retreat path will be the NW one is it not safe to assume that this modifier will apply?
your thoughts will be appreciated
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Piotr
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First things first - can a stack of three retreat across an unbridged river at all? I think the "only one unit per hexside per activation" would sitll apply for Allied units retreating during German activation, wouldn't it? That would mean 0608 is not a valid hex at all, thus making 0609 the first priority, and indeed +4 for all retreat paths resulting in a step loss would apply.

EDIT: but the question still stands anyway, we could e.g. assume the other hexside was also bridged. Also it got me thinking what happens if the only retreat path is across unbridged and more than one unit has to retreat.


EDIT: Don't mind me, I'm talking nonsense
 
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George Triantafyllidis
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Quote:
First things first - can a stack of three retreat across an unbridged river at all? I think the "only one unit per hexside per activation" would sitll apply for Allied units retreating during German activation, wouldn't it?


Piotr, most definitely they can retreat across.These 'activation' restrictions apply only to movement.The rules say:
Within any of these priorities.retreat into any hex regardless of terrain.However retreat is allowed across an unbridged river or into a forest hex not via road only if no other hex is available in that priority

All that is pretty clear.The rules also inform us that retreating units must stay together and end in the same hex and also that retreats are conducted by moving the units one hex away,observing stacking limits at the completion of the retreat,in a determined priority order.

The question really is if we are checking the stacking limits on a hex by hex basis or in the conclusion of the resolution,meaning the units are temporarily allowed to overstack in the first hex of the retreat and if they do not retreat a second hex during the resolution we retrack the retreat using an alternative path that avoids elimination and re allocate and reroll possible Hold checks.

I think i will go with the hex by hex check not waiting the conclusion because is less fiddly and more straightforward.

So i will assume that the only hex within a priority that respects the stacking limits is the hex on the NW via the bridge and because of that the +4 modifier will apply.Do you consent?
 
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John Butterfield
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Hi George and Piotr --

A similar question about overstacking during Allied retreat in GS was asked in this thread: gs-allied-retreat-questions

My response there was to add a new paragraph to GS 13.7: “Defending Allied unit(s) will retreat into a hex in violation of stacking limits only if it is the first hex of the retreat and at least one defender hit remains unfulfilled after entering the hex. The retreating units then fulfill their next hit by retreating a second hex, instead of checking the priorities of 13.52. If unable to retreat a second hex from the over-stacked hex, the defending units may not retreat into that hex.”

Another issue you raise is should the retreating units enter hex 0608 or 0609. A retreat into 0608 is Priority 2 while retreating into 0609 is Priority 3, so the units use priority 2 to retreat into 0608, as long as the restrictions of the above clarification paragraph are met.

Finally, I am amazed that six steps of elite Allied units defending in a town incurred five hits! The odds could not have been more than 2:1. Do you recall your chit draws?
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Piotr
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Yeah, I got confused there for a moment, of course retreat doesn't have this restriction, though it's not only movement, also advance.

And it seems we got a clarification that addresses this completely, thanks John I forgot about that previous thread.
 
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George Triantafyllidis
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The ratio was 19:7 -i do not remember the exact draw but it was very favorable :attacker only combined arms,attacker only armor,some low ratio chits etc.I took 2 hits.I decided to stop after drawing the minimum not wanting to challenge my admittedly good luck.It was about time i should say by the way.The Allies have been quite lucky so far with roadblocks placement- the appearance of unrevealed defenders or with blowing bridges thus ruining some carefully planned movements.Fantastic game

So were rolling against the Hold Chance without applying the +4 modifier.Assuming rolls <= to HC on the hits 2,3,4 there are 3 single step Allied units in the town.When we are down to the last hit we now apply the +4 mod since the retreat to 0608 in not valid anymore.If on the other hand any roll for hits 2,3 and 4 results to a retreat they retreat to 0608 and spend the next of the remaining hits to retreat again without roll.They end up dispersed and any remaining hits result to step loses automatically as per normal.Is this right?

It seems i missed that thread and your answers.I will study the posts thoroughly a bit later.Right now i have important issues to attend to like securing my threatened supply lines in the Southern shoulder and coordinating my attack against the defenders of Bastogne.

Thanks John
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