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Subject: Taking $200 ad infinitum rss

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Keith Gibson
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There is a rule whereby you can take a work action to just take $200.

But how does this work in a single player game?

As you only spend a disgruntled token every time you fly this would mean you could do this as many times as you like and get all the money in the game before proceeding.

I actually saw this on a youtube demo of the game and the presenter didn't know how to resolve this either. I would suggest that you'd either outlaw taking $200 in the single player game or making this an actual 'fly' turn that spends a token.

But what is the official rule if any?

 
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Trueflight Silverwing
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I would say once per "turn" (token). That seems to be fair enough and promote other courses of action.

I'm not sure if there is an official ruling on it. At the moment, I think there is only one official single player mission anyway.
 
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Matt Boehland
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I'd think the best way to play solitaire is to try to win in the fewest number of turns. Overusing the $200 option would not be the best way to do this.

If you're playing with an infinite number of turns, I'm not sure where the challenge of the game is coming from, and there's other abusable things you could do (spend enough turns at every supply planet to ensure you can choose from anything in the deck, and spend as much time as you want to get whatever job you want to get from deck, and so on)
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Roger BW
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In Awful Lonely in the Big Black, you're only allowed to take each action type once between Fly actions.
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George Krubski
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This has been discussed at length in various threads. The phrasing on the solo turn card is a little ambiguous, but the clear intent is that you can take up to 4 different actions per turn, but your turns ends when you take a Fly Action.

Since you cannot take the same Action type more than once per turn, you MUST take a Fly Action after you've taken a Work, Deal, and Buy Action.

Basically, I believe a solo player turn looks like this:

1) You may take between 0 and 3 of the following Actions, in any order: Buy, Deal, and Work. You may not take the same Action more than once.

2) You must take a Fly Action to end your turn. (Here's where it get's a little uncertain to me: I feel like you can take a Fly Action of 0 Sectors -- in other words, stay put -- but the alternate viewpoint is that, in the solo version, you MUST keep moving and Fly at least 1 Sector at the end of every round).


No matter how you slice it, though, you can't just sit and to Work/Buy/Deal actions infinitely without accumulating turn counters.
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Roger BW
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Interesting - I hadn't considered the zero-sector option. But it still takes up one of your limited number of turn-ending Fly actions, so I'd be inclined to allow it.
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Gerry Smit
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This requires a "Work" action, and you have to be on a planet to do so. Since you can only do one Work Action per turn, the max you can make this way is $4000 not enough to win IIRC.
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Darin Bolyard
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gwek wrote:
2)You must take a Fly Action to end your turn...

I am familiar with the wording on the card, but it doesn't lead me to think that a fly action is mandatory every turn. Rather, that it's the only action among the four that can end your turn regardless of which other actions you've already taken. Beginning with a solid crew, one generally does fly on most turns. Though there are many circumstances under which you'd want to stay put--re-attempt a job, take on a second job in the same location, deal again, buy again, etc. And flying out of and back into a sector, for one of these purposes, just to fulfill a mandatory fly action seems rather fiddly. This thread also mentions the zero-sector fly action with some good comments on the matter: Fly Action - Zero Spaces.

gwek wrote:
No matter how you slice it, though, you can't just sit and to Work/Buy/Deal actions infinitely without accumulating turn counters.

Indeed. The rules explicitly confirm this↑.
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Keith Gibson
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Thanks for all the replies guys which has given me a lot of food for thought. I suppose the answer is not to do any action that is considered not in the 'spirit of the game'. After all where is the credit in winning a single player game by in effect 'cheating'? I also appreciate that there is only one single mission at the moment but I feel that this game does still play well in single player mode and, as someone said, it's always a challenge to try to finish in the least moves. So I think I will adopt my own rule that 'feels right' and only take actions that seem appropriate at any point. Regards keith.
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Cy Fun
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If you interpret the ALITBB story card wording literally, turns basically don't exist and you only expend the disgruntled tokens when you fly. So you could park on a supply planet, digging through the deck and earning $200 indefinitely.

But I'm fairly certain it meant to say that you must expend a disgruntle token at the end of every turn, and a fly action always ends a turn. Even if you do it this way, it's still pretty easy to win. I usually play to get at least $15k, and the least I've ever made is $18k. Never lost. Most I ever made was $32k.

Been considering setting a house rule to increase the difficulty, such as making fuel cost $500, or upping the price to $20k.
 
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Roger BW
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I fail to see how this interpretation stands up.

Quote:
In the Solo game, a Turn consists of doing each of the 4 Actions no more than once. Whenever you take a Fly Action your turn is over and a new turn begins. Every time you take a Fly Action you must return a Game Length Token to the bank. When all 20 Game Length Tokens are gone you may take one final turn. You may not take a Fly Action on your last turn.


So you take a Work action to get $200. You can't take another Work action this Turn ("each of the … Actions no more than once"), so you have to end your turn. How do you end your Turn? By taking a Fly action and expending a Game Length Token.
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Paul Sauberer
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Cyfun wrote:
If you interpret the ALITBB story card wording literally, turns basically don't exist and you only expend the disgruntled tokens when you fly. So you could park on a supply planet, digging through the deck and earning $200 indefinitely.

But I'm fairly certain it meant to say that you must expend a disgruntle token at the end of every turn, and a fly action always ends a turn. Even if you do it this way, it's still pretty easy to win. I usually play to get at least $15k, and the least I've ever made is $18k. Never lost. Most I ever made was $32k.

Been considering setting a house rule to increase the difficulty, such as making fuel cost $500, or upping the price to $20k.


It sounds like in order to do what you've been doing you're already house ruling a lot, probably unintentionally.
 
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Nick Halliwell
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This is my understanding of the rules and the way to play solo which makes the most sense to me. I think the problem is that people get hung up on the idea that taking a fly action is the only thing that involves discarding a token/ending a turn which I don't think is quite right. Here's my description/interpretation, it shall be in depth to try and be the most clear that I can:

In solo you have 20 tokens to denote a single turn (20 turns). In this turn you can do each of the 4 actions (Fly, buy, deal, work) a maximum of one time each. You can do any number of these actions within a turn i.e just work, perhaps buy and deal or even do all four. Once you have completed each of these actions the turn is over, you discard a token and start the next turn. HOWEVER, if and when you decide to fly that is an automatic end of turn. So if you buy, deal, work and then fly, this is considered one turn. As such, so would simply buying and then flying. Or even just flying. After each flight a token is discarded/the turn has ended.
- If you wish to do an action for a second time (say you worked, botched the job but want to try again) but don't want to move anywhere, then you must end that turn and start a new one. You could deal, buy, work and then decide you want to buy again so you end your turn (discard your token) and may then do any of the above actions once more as this is now a new turn.

Short and simple - you don't need to fly in order to end the turn/discard the token but flying is an automatic end/discard.
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Dave Roy
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False Spirit wrote:
This is my understanding of the rules and the way to play solo which makes the most sense to me. I think the problem is that people get hung up on the idea that taking a fly action is the only thing that involves discarding a token/ending a turn which I don't think is quite right. Here's my description/interpretation, it shall be in depth to try and be the most clear that I can:

In solo you have 20 tokens to denote a single turn (20 turns). In this turn you can do each of the 4 actions (Fly, buy, deal, work) a maximum of one time each. You can do any number of these actions within a turn i.e just work, perhaps buy and deal or even do all four. Once you have completed each of these actions the turn is over, you discard a token and start the next turn. HOWEVER, if and when you decide to fly that is an automatic end of turn. So if you buy, deal, work and then fly, this is considered one turn. As such, so would simply buying and then flying. Or even just flying. After each flight a token is discarded/the turn has ended.
- If you wish to do an action for a second time (say you worked, botched the job but want to try again) but don't want to move anywhere, then you must end that turn and start a new one. You could deal, buy, work and then decide you want to buy again so you end your turn (discard your token) and may then do any of the above actions once more as this is now a new turn.

Short and simple - you don't need to fly in order to end the turn/discard the token but flying is an automatic end/discard.


Makes perfect sense, and I really have trouble understanding how anybody could interpret the card any differently.
 
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False Spirit wrote:
This is my understanding of the rules and the way to play solo which makes the most sense to me. I think the problem is that people get hung up on the idea that taking a fly action is the only thing that involves discarding a token/ending a turn which I don't think is quite right. Here's my description/interpretation, it shall be in depth to try and be the most clear that I can:

In solo you have 20 tokens to denote a single turn (20 turns). In this turn you can do each of the 4 actions (Fly, buy, deal, work) a maximum of one time each. You can do any number of these actions within a turn i.e just work, perhaps buy and deal or even do all four. Once you have completed each of these actions the turn is over, you discard a token and start the next turn. HOWEVER, if and when you decide to fly that is an automatic end of turn. So if you buy, deal, work and then fly, this is considered one turn. As such, so would simply buying and then flying. Or even just flying. After each flight a token is discarded/the turn has ended.
- If you wish to do an action for a second time (say you worked, botched the job but want to try again) but don't want to move anywhere, then you must end that turn and start a new one. You could deal, buy, work and then decide you want to buy again so you end your turn (discard your token) and may then do any of the above actions once more as this is now a new turn.

Short and simple - you don't need to fly in order to end the turn/discard the token but flying is an automatic end/discard.



Agreed. That's a very clear explanation. thumbsup
 
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Jay Johnson
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Is there a particular reasoning behind the "Fly action always ends the turn" rule in solo play?

When I solo play, I usually just go with "I can do each of the 4 different actions up to once a turn" (in any order).

Does that "nerf" the game too much? I personally don't feel that way, but I'm curious how others feel about it.
 
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Carl Hanson
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JayJ79 wrote:
Is there a particular reasoning behind the "Fly action always ends the turn" rule in solo play?

When I solo play, I usually just go with "I can do each of the 4 different actions up to once a turn" (in any order).

Does that "nerf" the game too much? I personally don't feel that way, but I'm curious how others feel about it.


I can't speak to the designer's intent, but the effect is that it limits back-to-back fly actions. That effectively makes it very punishing to go anywhere more than one fly action from your starting location without a planned stop over along the way.

Removing the limitation will make the game a little easier (I'm not sure how much), and you may want to shorten the clock by a couple of turns to make up for the difference. If you are playing with Blue Sun and/or (to a lesser degree) Kalidasa, this change to the turn rules may actually make the Rim boards viable locations to visit during a solo game.
 
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George Krubski
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Agreed all around.

I think if you're playing one (or especially both) Rim Expansions, it's probably not unbalancing to remove the turn order, but if just using the core map, shortening by maybe 2-4 turns may keep it pretty balanced.
 
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Carl Hanson
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Another way to play would be to simply remove the turn limit completely. Instead of counting down from 20, count up from zero. The objective would then be to see how quickly you can complete the story card and try to beat your "high score."

As a solo experience, there really is no incorrect way to play so long as you are having fun.
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turambur wrote:
I can't speak to the designer's intent, but the effect is that it limits back-to-back fly actions. That effectively makes it very punishing to go anywhere more than one fly action from your starting location without a planned stop over along the way.

It also makes breakdowns, Reaver encounters, Alliance encounters (if you have Wanted crew members), and salvage ops (basically anything that causes Full Stop) more costly.

With flexible turn order, if you get Full Stop, it does cost you some. But you still have the option on your next turn to continue on to your destination and do another action, where that isn't an option in "Fly Ends Turn".

Which could add to the challenge of it all, which some could consider making it more fun.

Personally, I'm still at the stage with my solo games where I just like being immersed in the 'Verse. Creating flavorful story lines in my head involving the character interactions (and incorporating plot bits from the locations visited and the Nav/Misbehave events). The element of challenge from the Story Card goals and such provides overall direction, but I don't stress too much about perfect balance with the timing criteria. So I tend to stick with the flexible turn order.
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I tried the "all four actions in any order" option in solo play. And doing so with 20 turns makes the game much easier. So, I modified it to "allow up to 3 of the 4 actions once per turn in any order," and have found it to be a solid experience. I first did this with Blue Sun attached, and still find it a good fit with Kalidasa added. Of course, this keeps the 20 turn limit. As Carl stated, counting up is an option as well, and I agree with his final statement:
turambur wrote:
As a solo experience, there really is no incorrect way to play so long as you are having fun.
 
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Cy Fun
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Psauberer wrote:
Cyfun wrote:
If you interpret the ALITBB story card wording literally, turns basically don't exist and you only expend the disgruntled tokens when you fly. So you could park on a supply planet, digging through the deck and earning $200 indefinitely.

But I'm fairly certain it meant to say that you must expend a disgruntle token at the end of every turn, and a fly action always ends a turn. Even if you do it this way, it's still pretty easy to win. I usually play to get at least $15k, and the least I've ever made is $18k. Never lost. Most I ever made was $32k.

Been considering setting a house rule to increase the difficulty, such as making fuel cost $500, or upping the price to $20k.


It sounds like in order to do what you've been doing you're already house ruling a lot, probably unintentionally.



I usually go for bounties with Early as captain. If I feel like getting a bunch of crew, I'll do with the Artful Dodger. If I wanna run fast and lean, I'll go with the Interceptor.

For starting crew, it's good to stock up on Lawmen. There are five in the game: Dobson is a great choice as he gives a $500 bounty bonus, a fight and a tech point, and can summon the Alliance cruiser. Sheriff Bourne is a good choice because he has a $500 bounty bonus, two negotiation points, and two fight points while in Border Space. However, he's a moral fuck and might get disgruntled if you go after any of the 5 immoral bounties (you've got a 25% chance of getting one). McGinness is also a good choice because he gives a $500 bounty bonus, and has 1 tech and one negotiation point. If I'm on the Dodger, I'll grab him because I rarely ever dig through the Osiris deck, and wouldn't otherwise get him unless he was in the prime-the-pump pile, and as I anticipate grabbing more lawmen while bounty-hunting on Silverhold, Regina, and Persephone. As for the last two, they only give $300 bounty bonuses. However, I'd go with the Fed Marshal as he's not moral and gives two fight points for showdowns. I'd only grab Deputy if I stumbled across her while digging on Regina.

It's also a decent idea to start with a mechanic, especially if using the Dodger. Everyone's natural choice would of course be Kaylee. But she's actually a rather bad choice. First, she's moral. And second, she's not wanted. "But why would I specifically want a wanted crewmember?" you ask. Because you're doing bounties, silly! And if a crewmember's bounty comes up, that's one less deck you have to dig through! And while it does piss off the rest of the crew if you turn on them, spending a few hundred bucks to un-disgruntle them is worth the couple grand you'd make on the bounty. Speaking of which, if you're digging on Silverhold, grab The Best In The House if you find it. Anyways, I usually start with Bree or Billy in my crew for this reason. But if I've already captured them for their bounties, and happen across Kaylee, then of course she's worth having. But having said all that, one can always just grab another lawman instead of a mechanic, as the odds of a Reaver encounter are pretty low considering there is no player to the right, lol. But of course there's the Reaver Encounter card, which really isn't so bad as I just disgruntle my captain.

So having said all that, if I'm on the Interceptor, I'll probably start with Dobson, McGinness, and Bree. If I felt like gambling and wanted to forego the mechanic, I'd go with Fed Marshall over Bourne as he's not moral, and the $200 difference in bonuses would only work out to $1000 over five bounties. And if Bourne got disgruntled for doing an immoral job, I'd have to waste time and money undisgruntling everyone.

If I'm on the Artful Dodger, I'll probably actually start with McGinnis, Bourne, Deputy, and Bree as I'd hope to get Dobson and Fed Marshall while digging through Silverhold and Persephone. With all five lawmen, that's a $2100 bonus PER BOUNTY ($1900 with your mechanic), and of course you don't have to pay the fuckers a cut.

I've found that when doing bounties, the best start location is Space Bazaar. Right of the bat, I sit there and dig through the deck for his Datascope, which is great for bounties because it lets me dig through supply decks twice as fast per turn. But until I find it, each turn I do a Buy action to dig through the deck, a Make-Work action to get $200, toss a Disgruntled token, and rinse and repeat. So even if it takes me 10 turns, I'll at least make $2000 from washing dishes.

There are 20 bounty cards (I don't have Kalidasa yet), and three of those are Scrappers, Bandits, and Enforcers, who are scattered across all supply planets. So subtracting those, there are 5 bounties on Persephone, 4 on Space Bazaar, 4 on Regina, 3 on Silverhold, and 1 on Osiris. Of those 17, 12 of them are on the right-side supply planets. So when I draw initial bounties, there's a 70% chance that at least one of the bounties will be near by. If any are on Space Bazaar, I'll probably find them while digging for Early's Datascope. And of course when I capture a bounty, I flip over another bounty card, and still have pretty good odds that they'll be nearby.

If I'm flying with the Dodger and want to grab more crewmembers, all I'll ever potentially need is lawmen and mechanics. Unfortunately, there aren't any mechanics on Space Bazaar, but there are a bunch on Persephone. However, the odds are good that any mechanics I find on Persephone could have bounties either now or down the road. And as for the lawmen, there are unfortunately none on Space Bazaar. But there's Fed Marshal on Silverhold, Dobson on Space Bazaar, Agent McGinnis on Osiris, and Sheriff Bourne and his Deputy on Regina. So if I do draw any Regina bounties, and don't have them already, it's worth going out there just to try and get the two lawmen.

Persephone is home to most of the mechanics in the game (five, to be exact), as well as the most wanted folks of any supply planet. In fact, two of them have individual bounties, and the other three are Scrappers who could potentially have a Cortex Alert bounty out for them. So Persephone is indeed a great place to dig for bounties, especially if I've got Early's Datascope. So whether or not I need a mechanic, if I have room in my crew, it's not a bad idea to stock up on them in case their bounties pop up.

Which leads me to another tactic I've experimented with: If there's room in my crew, and I've been digging through a deck and am about to head elsewhere, I'll hire any wanted folks in the discard pile. So if I happen to be across the board when their bounty pops up, I'll just turn on them immediately, saving me a trip (although if it's my only mechanic, I won't turn on them til I'm near their drop-off point). Since I usually operate with little to no crew, I don't have many/any to disgruntle. Shelling out a few hundred bucks is worth it to cash in a bounty, partly because it then opens up another bounty that might just be nearby.

Another one of my favorite tactics is to not immediately drop off bounties. I like to wait til I have as many lawmen as possible so as to get the biggest bonus.

As for house rules, I honestly don't know if it's an official rule or just one I fly by, but if I have a couple bounties with the exact same drop-off location, I treat it as one work action. For example: If I score both Jayne and Stitch, I then fly to Harvest, then the next turn I drop them both off as one work action, making $6800. Or, better yet, I have River, The Specialist, and Crow, and I drop them off at the Command Cruiser, making $10,700. And if I happen to have five lawmen on my crew, that's an extra $6300. And that's how I can make $17,000 in just one turn. Speaking of the Command Cruiser, this is where Dobson's special ability really comes in handy.

At this point, I've been able to time things so that I can spend 15 or even 18 turns digging through decks and apprehending bounties, then cashing in all my bounties in just a couple turns. And that's how I can make $30k with just a handful of bounties.

These tactics also work great in regular games if you wanna make a fuckton of cash. But you might also wanna stock up on stuff that prevents others from bounty jumping you. Personally, I like having Sash's Hand Cannon, so that if anyone actually successfully jumps my bounty, I'll just turn around and board them, disgruntling their captain twice and causing them to fire all their crew, then retaking my bounty. Then of course there's what's-her-butt on Silverhold who can force opponents to reroll showdowns. But then again, sometimes people can roll Thrilling Heroics 3 times in a row...

What's fun about having a bunch of lawmen and either Early or Sash, you can get LEGAL piracy jobs from Harken, and go to town pirating people. This tactic comes in especially handing when playing Any Port In A Storm. And if you have Dobson, you can plop the Command Cruiser down on your opponents if they wander into your square. And while the Cruiser is there, you can grab more piracy jobs!

But besides that story, there are 3 other stories that rely on having the most money at the end of the game to win. A few weeks ago, we played The Great Recession, and I just happened to have gone with the Dodger and Marco on Silverhold before we chose the story. Right off the bat, I got Zoe and Jayne on my crew, and there was an open bounty for Stich. The next turn, the Fed Marshal and Stich turned up, so I hired the lawman and promptly captured Stich. When we drew another bounty card, it was Jayne. So the next turn, I bought a fuckload of guns cheap thanks to Marco's special ability, and turned on Jayne. One of my friends had been digging through Persephone and happen to toss Dobson in the discard pile. So I hurried over there, grabbed that fucker, and happened to turn up Bree, which was one of the other open bounties. So my next turn I apprehended Bree, and then hauled ass down to Harvest. Dropping off Stich and Jayne got me somewhere around $7000. One of my friends grabbed TwoFry's bounty on Regina, which tuen turned up Jesse's bounty, and she happened to be in the discard deck on Space Bazarr. So I go grab her. Now bear in mind that this story is supposed to revolve around job cards from contact decks, and you don't get any starting jobs. And the story ends when four contact decks are empty, and everyone has to pay the bank back for all their unfiished jobs. So here I am with almost $10k, and my friends have spent most of this time just getting a basic crew together and getting jobs from Patience and Badger. We weren't even a third of the way through the 16 jobs in the contact decks, I had $20k. It was at this point that they conceded/ragequit.
 
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