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Thunderstone Advance: Into the Abyss» Forums » Rules

Subject: How to treat Xenomorph Level 4 in Epic Varient rss

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jooice ZP
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So this is more a rules question about the official variant. Maybe it shouldn't be under rules, sorry if so.

The Xenomorph Level 4 card says:

Physical Attack +4
Village/Dungeon:This card becomes a duplicate of an equal or lower level non-Xenomorph hero present, or in your discard pile, or in a hero stack(even if not top).


In the epic variant, the stacks are only of Level 1 heroes. But this card was designed to copy any available card in the game.

How do you play with it?
I am almost tempted to give the Xenomorph Level 4 card holder, the available Level 4 cards (excluding the ones upgraded to by others), and letting him choose which one of them he wants to copy.

Ridiculously powerful, but the alternative of just copying a level 1 hero from the stacks is really weak.
 
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Lior Kiperman
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We played it just like it is written. Most of the time the player just copied another of his heroes with a high level, instead of a level 1 hero from a hero stack.
 
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Nathyr
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We play it as having access to any non purchased hero card (of any level) in the game, as this seems more in line with the original intent of the card. I keep my level 2-4 heroes in a binder, so we just hand that player the binder (as purchased cards aren't in the binder since they are in someone's deck). Yes it's powerful, but that's the point of a Xeno level 4. Otherwise, why upgrade him to lvl 4? Since you are limited to one level 4 per deck, better to level someone else to 4 if Xeno doesn't have this ability.

I personally find a number of cards can be useful in Epic play if some small modification is made to follow the intent of the card rather than the letter.
 
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jooice ZP
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Nathyr wrote:
I personally find a number of cards can be useful in Epic play if some small modification is made to follow the intent of the card rather than the letter.


I agree completely!

this does bring up 2 other related issues


What happens with a hero like Tough? The level 2 of the Tough is:Physical Attack +3 Dungeon:If equipped, draw 1 card. Spoils: Place the top card of the Tough stack into your discard pile.

Would the spoils allow me to get 1 more tough from the box? or would it allow me to pick the top card of a basic hero stack in the game (the one that contains some Tough level 1 heroes), or neither?



Second issue, not so similar, but related to epic hurting certain heroes:

What do you do with the Rugged and Swift heroes, both react to other players' actions. when playing epic, you most likely will only have 1 copy. really hurts the hero.
however in this case you would need to really interpret the card differently for it to work.
I have experimented with keeping the lower level hero cards (kind of like a familiar without the discarding), and having them be the default react if you don't have a better react ability. ( the low level heroes are not used otherwise)


can you think of more instances where Epic clashes with the cards?
 
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Nathyr
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So in my version of Epic I only use one copy of every card, with a small number of exceptions: two copies of each food, 4 copies of Unstable Crystal available in the shop (the remainder in the box for crystal splitting), and the second copy of Paired Swords in the box to be given whenever the single copy in the shop is purchased. Since I own all the TS:A sets, this still totals to over 800 cards, including monsters (which I also only use one copy of if there are duplicates). It also had the nice effect of making most village stacks 8-12 cards, which is close to their size in normal TS:A games.

So with that in mind I follow the general rule that any time a card references another copy of itself, I make the reference now refer to that general category of things. Example: Bloodhound refers to other copies of itself. We play that it refers to other Mercenary Villagers (same class as the Bloodhound). Another example: Punch Dagger allows dual wielding with another Punch Dagger. We play that it can be dual weilded with any weapon (we first tried limiting it to just other small and light weight weapons, but it just didn't work since there isn't much in the category).

In developing this rule, my thought was that in a regular TS:A game, these would have been cards you would have bought lots of copies of. So assuming you did that, that card would have regularly been in your hand. Then I tried to figure out what the equivalent would be in a game of Epic, and found that the same class of card usually fits the bill.

Overall, we found that since there is only a single copy of every card, even if our modification made it slightly more powerful than intended, it's just one card and its value is easily diminished by the shear number of other cards in the game.

So for your specific examples: we play that the Tough can put any top card from the five level 1 hero stacks into the player's discard. Since there is only a single Tough in the entire game, it would be pretty weak absent this modification.

Rugged and Swift: we tried requiring the owner to at least have a level 1 hero in their hand to "React" with in order to reap the level 1 benefit of the marker, a level 2 hero in hand to reap the level 2 benefit, etc., but found it was kind of a pain. So we've just gone with the rule that if you have a marker on a monster, you get the react bonus regardless of whether the hero is currently in your hand or not. Again, having just one copy of each in the entire game makes it work out fine.
 
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