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Star Wars: Armada» Forums » Variants

Subject: Super Star Destroyer Concept rss

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Jim Dim
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I know I'm not the only one who saw this model and thought... maybe?!?!?!

https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/123698/super-star-destroy...


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Justin Hare
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I like breaking it up into 4 sections. Treating them as sort of separate ships lets it feel like it should, where a single SSD could engage a fleet.

I think the shields, hull, and most of the command/squad/engineering values seem reasonable.

The attack dice are just silly though. A combined 58 dice is ridiculous. SSDs were not common because they were wildly inefficient. Two ISDs could usually accomplish everything that a single SSD would be assigned too.

The damn ship was so long that only a small portion of the ship could even engage a single opponent. The way this ship would run on the table 1 to 3 sections of a ship could fire at a single opponent. So the attack dice need to be reduced dramatically. Something more like 5/section would be appropriate.
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Jim Dim
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I like it! keep flinging paint on the walls!

I'll do some modding on the cards to reflect the approximate ISD level of attacks

Jim
 
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Sean Conroy
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Ha! You want mirrion dice?!?!

I don't think I have a table big enough for this.
 
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Jim Dim
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oh, its definitely not the most practical of a game "piece". But practicality and nerdiness don't always go hand in hand... this is going to be cool even though its huge. Yeah, I can't imagine the space that will be required for a battle... fun!!!
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Ty
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I love it. I found some other SSD models including one that's 9 feet long (although it's one-of-a-kind).

An idea regarding movement:
Have the SSD stationary. It can still use its defense tokens, but all the other ships move around it.
OR
Give the SSD forward movement only, a speed of up to 2, and when it chooses to move, all the other figures move relative to the location of the SSD. It'd probably be easier that trying to move that massive thing.
 
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Michael Ptak
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Yay someone else started a SSD!

But my first reaction was also that that is an absurd amount of dice. You'd want anything fighting it to survive one-shot volleys... the SSD should kill ships with one-two volleys out of powerful arcs, not vomit firepower.

What kind of force do you expect to fight this thing? It's 800 points, plus the upgrades you'll throw on it, will the hypothetical Rebels be able to scare up to 1000 points and survive one-shots by the SSD?

It's a good start though!
 
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Chris Montgomery
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The SSD should only be playable as a Title and should have smaller-cut-up arcs - 8 of them, probably - with smaller piles of dice for each, but be permitted to fire out of 4 arcs instead of two.

A fun exercise, but I hope they don't make it an official part of the game - even on a "relative scale" design, this thing would cover the entire map.

EDIT: Sorry. I see what you did, there - an interesting way to model the SSD - though the dice do seem so amazingly good that nothing's going to be able to get close enough to do much damage.
 
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Dan
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Yeah... I see what you did there.
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Norsehound wrote:
...

What kind of force do you expect to fight this thing? It's 800 points, plus the upgrades you'll throw on it, will the hypothetical Rebels be able to scare up to 1000 points and survive one-shots by the SSD?

It's a good start though!
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Iron_Fist_%28Executor-class%2...

The Iron Fist (Renamed from Brawl.) was not destroyed in the engagement, it was crippled. The force that crippled it was the Hapan battle fleet and a MASSIVE group of fighters and small transports (hundreds of small targets) firing ludicrous waves of proton torpedoes and rockets from long range, into the front of the SSD.

They basically crippled the "tip" card up there, like a giant cigarette burning down.
 
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Jim Dim
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Excellent... so Im seeing a pattern... too much dice on initial cards. My thought process was that with only having side arch where normal ships had four, i was making up the difference. I see the points however - I have reduced the dice to a normal ISD for the bow. The rest of the ship also had two dice removed from each firing arc and one from each of the command section.


Michael Ptak, are you saying you think 800 is too high? (this was also a concern once I had initial amount of firepower... i wanted to have plenty of room for the opposition to feel they would get a chance... with reducing the firepower, perhaps dropping the points would be in order.

If we were to look at it with each section like its own ship... I would say Bow=110 (similar to an ISD)
Hangar=90 (mostly because of its fighter defense and capabilities)
mid ship= around 110 again (just because of decent armament again, but very high hull and decent shields.
Command Section= 90 (pretty standard looking ship, but lots of possible upgrades and 9 hull...)

That puts a base cost at 400 (with decent upgrades around 500). That is a pretty significant opposition that I think would give the SSD a challenge.

Thoughts?
 
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Jim Dim
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Title Card options for review... thoughts?
 
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Will

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If anyone tries fielding that thing against me, then I'm taking A Wings!

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Will

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gilgalad35 wrote:
Title Card options for review... thoughts?


How does that first title card interact with General Dodonna?
 
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Ian
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Broadstorm wrote:
gilgalad35 wrote:
Title Card options for review... thoughts?


How does that first title card interact with General Dodonna?


I think it is in the clear (no conflicting abilities) - the cards should only take effect when their respective sides deal critical damage.

That being said, it is a little undervalued compared to Gen Dodonna (Admiral status notwithstanding).
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Great work here on the SSD.

I followed the FFG forums on their SSD discussions but there is a lot of argument about the true scale to relative scale discussion and very little concrete suggestions so I left them to it. And then I find this thread. Much better.

I searched for models and found three viable kits to use. First off is the one suggested in the OP at 38" long. Superb model but so big I think it is more of a terrain piece which the battle can revolve arround.

http://www.modelermagic.com/?p=29873

There is also the Collector Fleet SSD but these go for a lot on ebay and I'm not paying that much for a kit that when released was about £30. I think they are around 12-13" long judging on the box size and the blockade runner I own from the same series.

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?type=4&cam...mmSmX9urPZvheRiywuRcCt6w

Finally there is the 14.5" resin kit from Scale Solutions for about £70. This is the one I just bought from Australia. It is a nicer model than the Collector Fleet, cheaper and of course much more transportable than the 38" biggie. Scale wise it is roughly 2 ISDs or 3 VSDs in length so the relatve scale has to stretch a bit.



A few thoughts on your rules for the 38" model

Physical Space: I would make the base equivalent to the outline of the SSD model. Gaps shouldn't be a problem as enemy ships have to target one of your hull zones anyway and the gaps just represent redundant areas of the ship merged into the stats of individual areas on the ship.

It could get complicated but what about rules for fighters actually flying under the model but placed on the base of the SSD. Allow SSD antifighter to target any squadron on the SSD base in that area but any allied imperial ship's anti squadron armament fired at a fighter under the SSD model inflicts a hit on the SSD if they roll a crit. This could encourage rebel fighters to perform "Deck runs" to hide from some of the Ack-Ack from escorting imperial ships. Imperial fighters could follow them onto the SSD base and would fire normally being more precise than ship mounterd Ack-Ack

Moving: I would suggest it doesn't move. Just assume it is actually slowly creeping forwards all the time but that the other ships on the table are relatively much faster and more maneuverable and fly around it. This assumption would allow it to use defensive tokens. You could allow it to turn by keeping the back of the SSD as a fixed pivot point then shift the bow 4" to the left or right. On a Nav command it could pivot more but if you ban forwards movement there is no need for a nav token. What about if a Nav Command is used allow 4" bow movement. If instead a Nav token is spent allow only half this. If no nav command or token is available then no turning is possible that round. If the bow shifting causes a collission I suggest just shifting the other ship gently out of the way and no collision takes place. If a squadron is touched just move it likewise or allow it to go under the base.

Defence tokens: I assume the redirect can move damage from the Port hangar Bay section to either the Port Bow or Port Midship zones.

Mission: Using a Super Star Destroyer is such a big undertaking I tink it needs to be its own special mission. You will need at least a 6x4 table or more likely 6x6 or 6x8. You will need 12-1500 points of attackers and 4-700 points of other defenders, squadrons and upgrades to the SSD. Setup should play lengthways on the table or diagonally on a square table. Place the SSD with its rearmost point distance 5 from the centre of the Imperial table edge (or corner if playing diagonally)and the bow pointing at the table mid point. Then the rebels have to deploy half their ships and half their squadrons (round up). Next with the supporting Imperial ships and remaining rebels deploy normally alternating each side. Escorting Imperial ships can deploy witin range 1-5 of the SSD.

For a smaller game give the rebels 6-700 points and give them replacements equal to their starting ships (but loosing any unique cards) which arrive as reserves the turn after each is destroyed. Imperial resreves can arrive according to a timetable to help protect the SSD.

There should be a time limit to prevent 1500 points of rebels taking the long route right round the table edge then coming at the SSD from the rear. 6-12 turns should force the rebels to get stuck in and try and actually kill the monster.


Thoughts on the 12-15" models

OK the 38" 800 point monster will be great but if people want the more managable 12-15" version we could adjust the rules to make a less devastating monster at around 4-500 points. I was thinking just use Gilgalads rules, cards and templates but removing the mid ships section all together. With a smaller model half the size of the original rules it could have normal movement rules with a single yaw on a speed 1 and no yaw at speed 2.
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Will

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PuntSpeedchunk wrote:
Broadstorm wrote:
gilgalad35 wrote:
Title Card options for review... thoughts?


How does that first title card interact with General Dodonna?


I think it is in the clear (no conflicting abilities) - the cards should only take effect when their respective sides deal critical damage.

That being said, it is a little undervalued compared to Gen Dodonna (Admiral status notwithstanding).


I misread it. I thought it was for when a critical was dealt to this thing not by this thing.
 
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Mario Sainz Martínez
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Hey, are those cargo icons?
 
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Jim Dim
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They are! I saw them on the shipyards site and I thought they were a great idea! The SSD is large enough that it would undoubtedly benefit with some of those perks.

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Michael Ptak
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It's one of those things I feel has to be demonstrated by putting plastic on the board and pushing it.

I like the sectional idea, I'm just not sure if this many sections is warranted or even possible to fight realistically in a game. I am aware of the Legends continuity having a few examples of how/why SSDs are defeated (Lusankya, in contrast to the Iron Fist, this SSD was disabled by an ISD, an Alderaanian frigate, and a handful of privateers armed with heavy torpedoes). But when it comes down to it this is a playing piece on the board, not a simulation of how it should behave in Legends.

So what I'm wondering in a simulation is how possible it is to cripple up to two sections of your concept SSD. Imagine what kind of firepower is needed to punch through the tokens and hull. Only two defense tokens does help on some of the sections, but this thing also has an enormous amount of shields.
 
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Mario Sainz Martínez
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gilgalad35 wrote:
They are! I saw them on the shipyards site and I thought they were a great idea! The SSD is large enough that it would undoubtedly benefit with some of those perks.


Neat, cool to know people find that stuff useful

Though you may want to point people toward the relevant page or they might not otherwise know what to do with the icon.

Balance-wise I would worry about Vital Cargo. It's essentially a free way of denying your opponent 800 points if you're about to be blown up (then again, it all depends on how feasible it is for an SSD to move to within distance 1 of the table edge). Not that it's the biggest balance issue you'll have to deal with, of course, but I felt compelled to bring it up
 
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Ty
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ElDiabloAzul wrote:
(then again, it all depends on how feasible it is for an SSD to move to within distance 1 of the table edge).


I want to see a table large enough to hold this battle. Then I want to put food on that table. Then I want to eat that food. Then we can battle!
 
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Jim Dim
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Michael Ptak,

Excellent point. Sections can certainly be reduced on shields and hull points. Basically making them all VSD like in shields and hp? make 3 to 4 max for section shields, and around 8hp is a max? The only thing I was trying to account for is that a normal ship has 4 sections to consider with its shields AND being targeted. The total shields on an ISD are 12, which is more than the highest shielded section of the SSD by 2. More firing arcs doesn't necessarily distribute the damage once it gets through to the hull, true, but given that the SSD will undoubtedly have less maneuverability, they will inevitably get more focus fire. All but one of the Sections have two arcs, and they are much wider arcs as well... This means that they have better selection of what to fire at, and also will be fired upon more... I just wanted to make sure that the sections couldn't be picked away immediately by 3 or 4 ships riding up the side.

I know the size of it is just silly. Thats the kinda fun part though. Of course the standard playing area is not going to work. It will have to be a customized scenario more than likely.

Jim
 
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Alexander Willims
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This is the exact kind of piece I would love to design a scenario around. Thanks for heading up some creative work on it. I will continue to follow your work.
 
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Gerard Doyle

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There are alternatives to the 19KM Executioner if your willing to go outside the SW saga. I am so I'm going to build my own SSD for the game (Leviathan class SSD)using the new Revell Star Destroyer model.

The concept is this: it's a SSD but not the size of the Executioner. It is a proto type for the gigantic SSDs. It's basically a SD on super steroids...
and it has standard ISD weapons and shields (more of course). While not in the SW story it is a very passable ship for the SW universe.

I got two of Mel's 3D printed ISD mod kitshttps://www.shapeways.com/product/YLQ9P2PZ4/armada-imperial-...for the bridge and turbo/ion cannon turrets and I got a bunch of Batlefleet Gothic bits to build it.

As you can see it freak'in huge but not too huge. It will have a bow and stern card. I'd appreciate any help making them as I can model but not make cards and stuff.

The Revell model is an excellent base for a SSD project for Armada players. Later on today I'll post pictures of the WIP here; it's pretty impressive. We have a player in our group that's thinking of using n of the Rebel X-Wing models as a base for a Rebel super battle ship.

One more picture of the model hull so you can see the size next to other Armada ships. Not too bad...


Ok I can't sleep so I took some pictures of what I got done so far.

Here we go... I've got the upper hull abut 95% assembled. The 3D print stuff is in a translucent plastic so I apologize for the lack of detail in these pictures for the turrets and stuff.

The SSD Leviathan in the ship yard...

The main battery broadside... the turrets on the top deck are from Mel's Armada ISD mod kit and are standard heavy turbo laser and ion cannon turrets in Armada scale. The four larger turrets are from Mechworld 3d printing https://www.shapeways.com/product/ZPZG58V5P/20-starship-trip...and they represent the super heavy turbo lasers which are just eye candy for now and add nothing to the game. I'm not entirely happy with these and I'm working on a replacement with Mel.

The stern showing the back of the bridge... you can see the BFG parts for detail. I'm so going to paint a Bush/Cheney bumper stick back there...

The forward turbo laser and ion cannon (center) cluster... that is a ISD broadsides worth of fire power just right there


Well that's it for now... I didn't want to side track this thread into a modeling thread. I just wanted to show you all there is a viable alterative to fielding a three foot SSD model in the game; as long as we are willing to think outside the box a bit.

Commander Klank
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Jason Huffstetler
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What an awesome project!
 
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