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Honestly I saw this coming, though I think it's a shock to some Bernie supporters who thought "the rich" would pay for everything:

http://www.breitbart.com/video/2015/10/18/sanders-would-rais...

For those who can't handle a Breitbart link here's an ABC News one instead:

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bernie-sanders-proposed-payro...
 
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i heard mexico is going to pay for it
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I like Sanders.

This isn't remotely surprising. He's generally straightforward, although some of his statistics are a bit off, and continue to be a bit off after fact-checking, which is disappointing.

I'd be very surprised if Hillary said the same thing when she supports the same plan.
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Well at least he's explaining how he'd pay for the new program. All too often, they just say something like, "We'll reduce inefficiencies elsewhere."

That being said, unless I get to go on paid vacation with my nearly grown kids, I oppose the concept. And/or I guess retroactively pay my wife for her parental leave (going on 27 years now....).

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qzhdad wrote:
Well at least he's explaining how he'd pay for the new program. All too often, they just say something like, "We'll reduce inefficiencies elsewhere."

That being said, unless I get to go on paid vacation with my nearly grown kids, I oppose the concept. And/or I guess retroactively pay my wife for her parental leave (going on 27 years now....).



There are two chances of Sanders becoming president - None. And absolutely none.

So you probably won't be getting a check.

I spent some time trying to figure out why anyone finds this dufus the slightest bit appealing. He's a clodhopper who looks like an aging toy troll, he has a terrible speaking presence and he's so monotone, bland and uninteresting that a person would have to be under some sort of weird enchantment to stick with him for more than a couple of minutes.

His fans must be ex-Obama Zombies who grew disenchanted and attached themselves to a new moron. If you listen to him enough, and I did, which was torture, you can easily suss out the basis of every single policy idea he floats. They all have the same basic theme:

Every major European nation

Every major industrial nation


Followed by "except America" or "yet America doesn't". So in essence his entire popularity is based on what his fans like about other nations. To listen to him you'd think America is the worst place ever because of all the things "every major European nation" or "every major industrialized nation" does or has that America doesn't.

That's it. Don't believe me? Go read the article above. Go listen to Bill Mahr interview him. Listen to any campaign speech he makes - that's the common theme: Those guys have it and we don't therefore, because those guys are the bestest, we have to elect Sanders so he can make us just like them.

Just the fact that anyone here thinks the solution to whatever varying ideologues think needs to be fixed is to tax the fuck out of people proves two things to me - a) RSP has more than it's share of stupid and ill-informed liberals and b) Dukakis could probably beat this guy in a 1-on-1.
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I wouldn't even know what to do with myself on several week vacations. Not that it matters, I am a professional exempt with NO set vacation days per year. Wrap you mind around that.
 
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MWChapel wrote:
I wouldn't even know what to do with myself on several week vacations. Not that it matters, I am a professional exempt with NO set vacation days per year. Wrap you mind around that.


You need to use your imagination! You really couldn't amuse yourself for a few weeks or months with pay coming in? I could see really training hard for a bike race, taking an extended bike tour, taking a semester of classes, etc.

I've never heard of a position with no vacation. I am exempt which means I can be required to work as many hours as my employer wants without additional compensation, but I do have a certain number of vacation (well Personal Time Off) days as do everyone up to the CEO.

I think our parental policy is 12 weeks paid for mothers and either parent can take some months unpaid. (My youngest was three when I hired in here, so I didn't pay much attention to that part of the benefits.)

Of course, the problem with taking vacation is that no one is doing my job while I'm out, so it piles up......

 
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MWChapel wrote:
I wouldn't even know what to do with myself on several week vacations. Not that it matters, I am a professional exempt with NO set vacation days per year. Wrap you mind around that.


That's easy - you're kind of like Junior ROTC compared to real soldiers. Real soldiers being, of course, people who started, built and successfully operated their own businesses for almost 40 years. Like me.

We usually laugh at you guys who know what your check is going to be and when you're going to get it.

Of course I made enough money that my kid's mother never had to work and I even had a part time nanny. I never got any leave for my youngest either, despite raising him alone. Don't thank me for voting for people that didn't want to tax you to pay me for being a parent.

 
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qzhdad wrote:



I've never heard of a position with no vacation. I am exempt which means I can be required to work as many hours as my employer wants without additional compensation, but I do have a certain number of vacation (well Personal Time Off) days as do everyone up to the CEO



This is a new thing I am finding in my industry. Essentially, the company states you have no "set" number of vacation days. If you want to take a vacation, take a vacation. You can take as much as you "think" you'll need. However, this has a physiological effect of "Am I taking to many days off" because you really don't know how much is too much...So instead, you take too little. It's getting interesting in this US industry. We start thinking, am I too valuable to lay off if I take say 3-4 weeks vacation, OR am I disposable, and if a take three weeks off, will my job still be here. Theoretically, I could take 6 months off, or until they give me my walking papers.

It's the evil of this capitalist society!
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DWTripp wrote:
qzhdad wrote:
Well at least he's explaining how he'd pay for the new program. All too often, they just say something like, "We'll reduce inefficiencies elsewhere."

That being said, unless I get to go on paid vacation with my nearly grown kids, I oppose the concept. And/or I guess retroactively pay my wife for her parental leave (going on 27 years now....).



There are two chances of Sanders becoming president - None. And absolutely none.

So you probably won't be getting a check.

I spent some time trying to figure out why anyone finds this dufus the slightest bit appealing. He's a clodhopper who looks like an aging toy troll, he has a terrible speaking presence and he's so monotone, bland and uninteresting that a person would have to be under some sort of weird enchantment to stick with him for more than a couple of minutes.

His fans must be ex-Obama Zombies who grew disenchanted and attached themselves to a new moron. If you listen to him enough, and I did, which was torture, you can easily suss out the basis of every single policy idea he floats. They all have the same basic theme:

Every major European nation

Every major industrial nation


Followed by "except America" or "yet America doesn't". So in essence his entire popularity is based on what his fans like about other nations. To listen to him you'd think America is the worst place ever because of all the things "every major European nation" or "every major industrialized nation" does or has that America doesn't.

That's it. Don't believe me? Go read the article above. Go listen to Bill Mahr interview him. Listen to any campaign speech he makes - that's the common theme: Those guys have it and we don't therefore, because those guys are the bestest, we have to elect Sanders so he can make us just like them.

Just the fact that anyone here thinks the solution to whatever varying ideologues think needs to be fixed is to tax the fuck out of people proves two things to me - a) RSP has more than it's share of stupid and ill-informed liberals and b) Dukakis could probably beat this guy in a 1-on-1.


Yeah. It's pretty shitty how jealous we are of stupid shit Europeans have, like their low infant mortality rates, lazy ass working weeks, and tediously small prison populations. (Yeah, the last one is unrelated.) Maybe if they had higher infant mortality they'd have higher infant morality like us!

Sorry Tripp, you wouldn't understand -- we Christians have a burning need to legislate morality. There's a large hole inside you that can only be filled by God -- and taxing the fuck out of the filthy rich sinners. You'd know this if you went to church sometime.

And yes, Sanders won't win the nomination -- we'll have another non-election between Clinton and other Clinton.
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MWChapel wrote:

This is a new thing I am finding in my industry. Essentially, the company states you have no "set" number of vacation days. If you want to take a vacation, take a vacation. You can take as much as you "think" you'll need. However, this has a physiological effect of "Am I taking to many days off" because you really don't know how much is too much...So instead, you take too little. It's getting interesting in this US industry. We start thinking, am I too valuable to lay off if I take say 3-4 weeks vacation, OR am I disposable, and if a take three weeks off, will my job still be here. Theoretically, I could take 6 months off, or until they give me my walking papers.

It's the evil of this capitalist society!


Boy, if you could get three or four of those jobs going simultaneously, you could retire early!

That doesn't sound like a great system for people that do enjoy vacation unless the job is objectively measurable. Then I think I'd like it. I'm interested in hearing how it works for you over the a few years.

I suspect that here in car country, we won't see that model for a while, but thanks for sharing the concept, I'd not heard of it.
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qzhdad wrote:

That doesn't sound like a great system for people that do enjoy vacation unless the job is objectively measurable. Then I think I'd like it. I'm interested in hearing how it works for you over the a few years.


Well, I worked at IBM for 15 years, had 5 weeks a year vacation that didn't roll over, hardly ever took all 5 weeks(usually 2-3 weeks a year), survived a half dozen layoffs, got to the point I was getting shitty raises, promotions and a continual stream of "you should be glad to have a job".

Now I have a job that paid me 30% more than I was getting at IBM on my first day, tons of stock options, great raises, and I still ended up taking about the same amount of days off.

Because at IBM, they give you 5 weeks of vacation, but you're also a paid exempt, if your job lags because you take those days off...well, off with your vacation loving head.

That is the trick at forcing companies to give a month of vacation, they may give it to you, but you still need to deliver to keep that job. Vacation or not.
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I'm sure there are advantages. I just like the fact that as long as my job is getting done, no one will look at me funny if I take twenty five or thirty days off. I suspect that may become the case when you know your boss there and possibly even more.

I've heard horror stories of people giving up vacation, but I just work some longer hours before and after time off and have lost maybe 2 weeks total in my 30 years. Those were because something broke in December and I'd planned on a long Xmas holiday. My current company lets us carry over a week, I think, from year to year which is really nice because you can hold a week in reserve for emergencies.
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qzhdad wrote:
I'm sure there are advantages.


There are always trade-offs. Me, I love boatloads of cash over vacations I guess. So it actually works for me.
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I will come in on the side of I don't think businesses should be "forced" to pay for employee's vacations. Benefits and compensation should be bargained between employer and employee.
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I probably would've done the same a few decades ago. laugh

And, it sounds like you may eventually have both where you are!
 
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DWTripp wrote:
There are two chances of Sanders becoming president - None. And absolutely none.


They said the same thing about Obama in 2007. How'd that work out for you?
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snakebitcat wrote:
DWTripp wrote:
There are two chances of Sanders becoming president - None. And absolutely none.


DW TrippThey said the same thing about Obama in 2007.
 
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Terwox wrote:

Yeah. It's pretty shitty how jealous we are of stupid shit Europeans have, like their low infant mortality rates, lazy ass working weeks, and tediously small prison populations. (Yeah, the last one is unrelated.) Maybe if they had higher infant mortality they'd have higher infant morality like us!

Sorry Tripp, you wouldn't understand -- we Christians have a burning need to legislate morality. There's a large hole inside you that can only be filled by God -- and taxing the fuck out of the filthy rich sinners. You'd know this if you went to church sometime.

And yes, Sanders won't win the nomination -- we'll have another non-election between Clinton and other Clinton.


Speak for yourself, I'm not the least bit jealous of anything European. Nothing. I've lived and worked there and it's all fine, except just not as good as here. Cherry picking some debatable stats (infant mortality rate for one) is a hideously infantile way to try and highlight why you think Europe is better. I'll give you the prison thing but that's about it.

I suspect if you lived and worked there or were stationed there, anywhere in Europe, anywhere, you might come away wondering why Bernie has any supporters at all. They're not us, we're not them, nothing is similar enough to work in both places. Believing otherwise is pretty fucking stupid.
 
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MWChapel wrote:
snakebitcat wrote:
DWTripp wrote:
There are two chances of Sanders becoming president - None. And absolutely none.


DW TrippThey said the same thing about Obama in 2007.


I'm pretty sure I never said he had no chance. I did say many things about him though, but people in general prefer to not lift the rug to see what's been swept under it.

And Obama hasn't had a single negative direct effect on me personally. At all. Unless he tries to remove social security, banking, money, the internet, eBay, guns, doctors, the oil industry and Steam in the final months of his pathetic reign as Apologizer-in-Charge he'll just be another ex-president who won't sell me a book about his presidency.

My objections to him are based on what I'd like my kids and grand kids to have, I took care of me already.
 
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MWChapel wrote:
I will come in on the side of I don't think businesses should be "forced" to pay for employee's vacations. Benefits and compensation should be bargained between employer and employee.


That's a very easy argument for us doing IT, with our 3 figure hourly rates and plenty of opportunities to get other jobs at any given moment. I can be hourly, or be salaried with vacation and big benefits, and figure out what I want: You and I can pick and choose whatever we want. It's a far more interesting question for those that don't have a market that is so wonderfully pro-employee.
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Drew1365 wrote:
DWTripp wrote:
And Obama hasn't had a single negative direct effect on me personally. At all.


If your insurance rates have gone up, if your grocery bill has gone up, if your heating costs have gone up, you can thank Obama.


And if the government has come for your guns you can thank Obama for that as well. Why the hell not.
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hibikir wrote:

That's a very easy argument for us doing IT, with our 3 figure hourly rates and plenty of opportunities to get other jobs at any given moment. I can be hourly, or be salaried with vacation and big benefits, and figure out what I want: You and I can pick and choose whatever we want. It's a far more interesting question for those that don't have a market that is so wonderfully pro-employee.


It's only an easy thing because the product I have for sale is in demand. But if my product is not in demand, why should I expect someone to pay a subsidized premium price for it? Which if that is what we are claiming then OK, but what is the extent of the subsidy? Basic needs, luxury needs? Is a vacation REALLY a basic needs? A minimum wage, sure I can sign on for. Subsidized medical, sure. But subsidized vacation? That just kind of doesn't sit well with me.

And if they did subsidize vacations through a new tax, that just mean lower wages, and an even deeper slide of the middle/lower class.
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Ferretman wrote:
Honestly I saw this coming, though I think it's a shock to some Bernie supporters who thought "the rich" would pay for everything:


You would think that, I'm sure. Do you have any actual reason to think that? Is it based on never listening to what he says?
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Drew1365 wrote:
jonb wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
DWTripp wrote:
And Obama hasn't had a single negative direct effect on me personally. At all.


If your insurance rates have gone up, if your grocery bill has gone up, if your heating costs have gone up, you can thank Obama.


And if the government has come for your guns you can thank Obama for that as well. Why the hell not.


I'll bet you still believe all the pie-in-the-sky promises of Obamacare.


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