Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
11 Posts

The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Into Ithilien Shadow Effect / attack again rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
James C
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
In the "Into Ithilien" adventure, there's a shadow effect that reads something along the lines of "attacking enemy makes a second attack."

Question: may an unused / available character be declared as a defender against this second attack?

Thank you
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dominic B
Germany
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Absolutely.

The second attack will be handled just like another normal attack. So you can declare any ready character as defender.

Note that normally the enemy gets a new shadow card for this additional attack. But you discard all previously dealt shadow cards from the enemy before dealing it a new shadow card for the second attack (as stated FAQ paragraph 1.42).
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James C
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thank you.

I keep getting tripped up over the "declare defenders" phase - I think of it as happening all at once, without alteration, after attackers have been identified. I didn't realize that additional defenders could ever be declared after that initial declaration.

To push the envelope - if an attacker is dealt a shadow card that dispenses with a defender entirely (which is sometimes the case), I've been treating the attack as undefended thereafter. I couldn't bring in a readied character to defend this attack in that case, could I?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
K C

Centennial
Colorado
msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Professor X wrote:
Thank you.

I keep getting tripped up over the "declare defenders" phase - I think of it as happening all at once, without alteration, after attackers have been identified. I didn't realize that additional defenders could ever be declared after that initial declaration.

To push the envelope - if an attacker is dealt a shadow card that dispenses with a defender entirely (which is sometimes the case), I've been treating the attack as undefended thereafter. I couldn't bring in a readied character to defend this attack in that case, could I?


In that case, unfortunately no. This is why such shadow effects are quite dangerous. For each attack, the order should be:
- declare defender
- resolve shadow effect
- apply damage
If the shadow effect causes the defender to be killed or removed from combat, you cannot go back a step and must assign undefended damage. After doing this for one enemy engaged with you, proceed with the next enemy and follow the same steps. NB if a character is declared as a defender, but removed from combat by a shadow effect, he is still exhausted and cannot defend against other attacks that turn.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Greg Burkett
United States
Warsaw
Indiana
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I've been playing for a looooong time and didn't realize the previous shadow cards were discarded for subsequent attacks. Does this mean that an enemy that was granted +1 attack by a previous shadow card, that then makes a second attack, wouldn't get that +1 on its second attack?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tony Fanchi
United States
Saint Paul
Minnesota
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
grex22 wrote:
I've been playing for a looooong time and didn't realize the previous shadow cards were discarded for subsequent attacks. Does this mean that an enemy that was granted +1 attack by a previous shadow card, that then makes a second attack, wouldn't get that +1 on its second attack?

Correct.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Eckes
United States
Bloomington
MN
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thank you for answering that! It was a question I have had for a while now
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dominic B
Germany
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Professor X wrote:
I keep getting tripped up over the "declare defenders" phase - I think of it as happening all at once, without alteration, after attackers have been identified. I didn't realize that additional defenders could ever be declared after that initial declaration.

KC already explained it. But I want to point it out again. Every enemy will be handled seperately. So you choose an attacking enemy, declare a defender for that attack, reveal the shadow card and resolve combat. After resolving you can choose the next attacking enemy. There will never be the case that you declare all defenders for every attacking enemy at once.

Perhaps the Clarified Turn Sequence Sheet could be useful. It gives a step by step overview of every phase, I really like it.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Manuel Tiago Pereira
Portugal
flag msg tools
mb
AdmiralACF wrote:
grex22 wrote:
I've been playing for a looooong time and didn't realize the previous shadow cards were discarded for subsequent attacks. Does this mean that an enemy that was granted +1 attack by a previous shadow card, that then makes a second attack, wouldn't get that +1 on its second attack?

Correct.


Hello,

Do you know where we can find the ruling on this?

Also, after a shadow card is discarded from an enemy, does its effect immediately disappear (unless otherwise stated on the shadow effect text, of course)?

Thank you!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dominic B
Germany
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
BlueRag wrote:
AdmiralACF wrote:
grex22 wrote:
I've been playing for a looooong time and didn't realize the previous shadow cards were discarded for subsequent attacks. Does this mean that an enemy that was granted +1 attack by a previous shadow card, that then makes a second attack, wouldn't get that +1 on its second attack?

Correct.
Hello,

Do you know where we can find the ruling on this?

The basis of the ruling can be found in the FAQ:

(1.42) Additional attacks by an enemy
When an enemy makes an additional attack, discard all
of its previously dealt shadow cards before dealing it a
new shadow card.


BlueRag wrote:
Also, after a shadow card is discarded from an enemy, does its effect immediately disappear (unless otherwise stated on the shadow effect text, of course)?

So for you second question, I was wondering this myself.

I don't remember any place where it is explicitly stated how long the effect of a shadow card lasts. But I would think that the effect lasts only as long as the shadow card is in play. Otherwise a shadow effect like "attacking enemy gets +1 att" could be taken as an ongoing bonus for as long as the enemy is in play. So I would say the bonus just disappears with the shadow card getting discarded.

Maybe someone else knows some proof/disproof to this theory.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robin Munn

Unspecified
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Leonce wrote:

So for you second question, I was wondering this myself.

I don't remember any place where it is explicitly stated how long the effect of a shadow card lasts. But I would think that the effect lasts only as long as the shadow card is in play. Otherwise a shadow effect like "attacking enemy gets +1 att" could be taken as an ongoing bonus for as long as the enemy is in play. So I would say the bonus just disappears with the shadow card getting discarded.

Maybe someone else knows some proof/disproof to this theory.


Some player cards have the wording "Attached ally gains +1 attack", and their attack bonus goes away the instant the card goes away. Other cards like Arwen Undomiel have the wording "... gains sentinel and gets +1 Defense until the end of the round." For those cards, there has been a ruling that they create an effect that's independent of them, so that if Arwen goes away before the end of the round, the effect will still last until the end of the round.

So while I haven't found any official ruling on shadow cards, I think it's correct to play it that the shadow card effects only last as long as they do, unless the shadow effect has the wording "until the end of the round". So far, all the shadow cards I've been able to find just say "attacking enemy gets +1 attack" and do not say "until (whenever)", so their effects will go away when the shadow card does.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.