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Ships» Forums » Rules

Subject: Game end rss

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Philippe Keppens
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Simple question: does the game end when there are 5 ships in merchant + warship box of age 11 or if there in 5 ships in the mechantbox or the warshipbox of age 11?
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James Clarke
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rules wrote:
The game ends when there are five or more ship counters in Age Eleven, in either box AND each player has had an equal number of turns.

In my head, I assumed that game end is triggered when there are a total of 5 or more ships in the Age 11 boxes. But the rules don't quite say that, so now I'm not sure.

Good question.

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Thomas Leitner
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Highland Cow wrote:
rules wrote:
The game ends when there are five or more ship counters in Age Eleven, in either box AND each player has had an equal number of turns.

In my head, I assumed that game end is triggered when there are a total of 5 or more ships in the Age 11 boxes. But the rules don't quite say that, so now I'm not sure.

Good question.



From the rulebook:

The game ends when there are five or more ship counters in Age Eleven, in either box AND each player has had an equal number of turns.

I think the "in either box" covers it.
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James Clarke
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MDJD wrote:
Highland Cow wrote:
rules wrote:
The game ends when there are five or more ship counters in Age Eleven, in either box AND each player has had an equal number of turns.

In my head, I assumed that game end is triggered when there are a total of 5 or more ships in the Age 11 boxes. But the rules don't quite say that, so now I'm not sure.

Good question.



From the rulebook:

The game ends when there are five or more ship counters in Age Eleven, in either box AND each player has had an equal number of turns.

I think the "in either box" covers it.


So are you saying? :-

Game end is triggered when there are EITHER 5 ships in box 1 OR 5 ships in box 2.

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M.C.Crispy
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MDJD wrote:
Highland Cow wrote:
rules wrote:
The game ends when there are five or more ship counters in Age Eleven, in either box AND each player has had an equal number of turns.

In my head, I assumed that game end is triggered when there are a total of 5 or more ships in the Age 11 boxes. But the rules don't quite say that, so now I'm not sure.

Good question.



From the rulebook:

The game ends when there are five or more ship counters in Age Eleven, in either box AND each player has had an equal number of turns.

I think the "in either box" covers it.
Yeah, as James intimates... it doesn't actually cover it at all because that phrase "in either box" is ambiguous.
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James Clarke
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Ambiguous yes.

a) the game end is triggered when there are 5 ships in Age 11.

b) the game end is triggered when there are 5 ships in one of the Age 11 boxes.

Which is it?

 
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James Clarke
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Another sub-query:-

When the 5 ships trigger has been reached (whichever the ruling is), could a later player in that round remove a ship from Age 11, thus untriggering the end of the game?

 
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Maarten D. de Jong
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I, Random Internet Nobody From An Even More Insignificant Country, rule that the answer is five ships in Age 11, in total, irrespective of which box they are placed in. See page 6, where it is said
Quote:
The game will end when there are five or more ship counters in the level eleven boxes on the Ship Age Track, i.e., the end of the track, ...
There's even an image of five ships in Age 11 alongside this piece of text. Granted, it's a bit ambiguously phrased in the place where the end is officially explained... but when in conjunction with the earlier phrase cited above it has to be the answer I gave.

As for James' subquery: I sincerely doubt that untriggering would be possible. Even if it is not mentioned in the rules, I would not allow it. It is very rare for a game to allow untriggering end conditions; but it would also in this case promote stalling for as long as possible until everyone placed whatever they could in Age 7 of the merchant/city track, thus massively unbalancing the game. This is the only reason I can think of why you would want to remove a ship from the ship track in Age 11.

That said, there is no reason why people could not employ that trick before the end of the game was triggered, so placing a ship and immediately withdrawing it. It would be inefficient in terms of cube usage, but at the same time those in need of more VPs would easily cooperate, thus making matters much harder for someone who actually strives to end the game. Therefore I'm not sure whether or not this scenario needs a minor rules adjustment (once placed in Age 11, a ship can no longer be removed). Which in turn begs the question: how many people withdraw ships from the current Age so as to make transition to the next Age harder? I find it a sufficiently interesting tactic to give it a whirl!
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Thomas Leitner
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I read it as total five ships, but I can see how the wording is ambiguous.
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James Clarke
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Thanks Maarten for the quote, which I had overlooked.

Rules Page 6 wrote:
The game will end when there are five or more ship counters in the level eleven boxes on the Ship Age Track, i.e. the end of the track, AND all players have had an equal number of turns.

So if we get to the end of a round and there aren't at least 5 ships in Age 11, the game doesn't end (even if we temporarily reached 5 during that round).

 
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Maarten D. de Jong
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Yes, but is the check for five ships made at any point during a game round, after which the game ends when everyone has had an equal amount of turns; or does it all come together at the same time, in other words there is but one check for the game's end, namely at the end of the turn of the player going last in turn order?

Frankly I feel this question has its origin in the situation of people removing ships from Age 11 not arising during playtesting meeple, and therefore I suspect the two end conditions are mutually exclusive. In other words: the game is over the moment there are 5 Age 11-ships, after which the round is played out, and final scoring begins. It wouldn't be the first time such a rules hole is left unaddressed.

I'll activate the Supermartin signal again.
 
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Maarten D. de Jong
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Martin conformed that at any given moment there are 5 ships in Age 11, the end of the game is irrevocably triggered; so it's not that this check is solely made at the end of the turn of the last player in turn order, or that the game can be made to go into 'overtime' by removing a ship.

He has however remained silent on the issue of being able to 'lengthen' the game by placing ships in Age 11 and then removing them before the limit of 5 is reached, so I'm inclined to say, with some trepidation, that this tactic is acceptable. Players should therefore be aware of the potential of opponents to score big, and join forces to end the game before that becomes a reality. Which would mean Ships is not the simple VP gathering engine it appears to be at first sight.

Edit I have received confirmation that there is no restriction whatsoever on removing ships from the current Age, including the last one, 11. Game away, lads and lassies!
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