Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
10 Posts

Combat Commander: Europe» Forums » Rules

Subject: More Ambush Card fun and frolic... rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Read the rulebook, plan for all contingencies, and…read the rulebook again.
United States
Austin
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Okay, we established at our table that in a Melee situation the Inactive player plays first any Ambush cards that he has and may wish to play in the Melee, followed by the Active player. ...So my opponent, when asked if he has any Ambush cards to play for the upcoming Melee, plays a card—face down!—and asks if I have any Ambush cards to play! I didn't and the Pone flips up his legitimate Ambush card.

Now, I'm pretty sure that part of resolving an Ambush Action card(s) by the Inactive player per rule A.24 is that it must be played face up first, the effects applied, then the Active player plays his Ambush(es), if any, applies them, and then were off to the races on a roll-off to complete the Melee. Is that right?

And, while on the topic of how to play a card, if the Inactive player has two (or more, I suppose,) Ambush cards, they have to be played face-up—AND APART—and not cleverly stacked to lend the appearance of looking at just one Ambush card?

My apologies for appearing dense about this, but, that's the sorta fishy, gamey, rules-parsing play that helps to steer me away from a lot of tactical wargames. Such games can draw that aspect out of otherwise gregarious personalities and I don't have the patience for it that I once had.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ben Vincent
United States
Ridgefield
Washington
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I don't think the rules specifically address these questions because, frankly, they're unsportsmanlike.

Bluffing by playing dummy cards is an element of some games (Rommel in the Desert), but as it is not discussed in CC:E, it seems pretty clear that it is not intended. Note that in the example of play, every time someone plays a card, they announce what it is and who it is applying to.

I can't think of ANY game where it is acceptable to hide the play of multiple cards in a stack. Most games with cards specify that you must show your opponent how many cards you have in your hand if asked, so it's generally accepted that hand size is open information.

Sounds like you need a new opponent.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David desJardins
United States
Burlingame
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
BradyLS wrote:
Now, I'm pretty sure that part of resolving an Ambush Action card(s) by the Inactive player per rule A.24 is that it must be played face up first, the effects applied, then the Active player plays his Ambush(es), if any, applies them, and then were off to the races on a roll-off to complete the Melee. Is that right?


Yes. Where did you get this "opponent"? I hope you aren't married to her.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Pardoe
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
1.6 Actions states....If a card is played for its action, it is immediately placed into that player's discard pile.

Sounds to me like if you have an Ambush card to play, you discard it (face up), break a unit. If you have a second Ambush card, you do the same. Doesn't say to play face down, bluff, or anything else.

[Aside - if you want to "game back" - tell the opponent, he didn't play his Ambush card at all. ]

But seriously - the only "simultaneous" action in Melee is the roll. But even that is done sequentially to allow for handling of the triggers that might arise.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Barry Ingram
Spain
Barcelona
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hi Brady.

There's no doubt your opponent should have played the card by announcing and placing straight onto his discard pile. As others above have quite rightly confirmed.

One other point, covered quite extensively in an earlier thread is that the inactive player may play an Ambush and if he does want to play one he must do so before the active player. That is clear from the rules, but what isn't quite as clear is the fact that he doesn't have to declare/play all his ambush cards at this point, if he holds more than one.

The sequence would go something like:
Inactive Player: Declare if playing an Ambush card, place one ambush card face-up in his discard pile.
Active Player: Declare if playing an Ambush card, place one ambush card face-up in his discard pile... then back to the
Inactive Player: Declare if playing another Ambush card, place one ambush card face-up in his discard pile... and so on.


Chad describes it much more succinctly, here...

Chad Jensen wrote:
Ambush Actions are played utilizing rule A24.2: that is, inactive player must play any and all Ambushes that he wishes then the active player plays any and all Ambushes that he wishes.

Also note that the Ambush rule (A25) specifically states that BOTH sides may play Ambushes and that BOTH sides can be entirely eliminated due to Ambushes - so they will ALL happen before the Melee dice are rolled (or the Melee cancelled due to no longer having opposing forces).

Are we good?

EDIT: The reason that Ambushes are played "one at a time" is because I, as the receiver of an opponent's first Ambush, don't know if he has a second one in hand which can sway my decision of WHO to break if I have multiple units in the Melee. If a side only has a single unit in Melee then, for the sake of brevity, the opponent can just play both Ambushes right away as there is no choice involved.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David desJardins
United States
Burlingame
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
TommieSL wrote:
The sequence would go something like:
Inactive Player: Declare if playing an Ambush card, place one ambush card face-up in his discard pile.
Active Player: Declare if playing an Ambush card, place one ambush card face-up in his discard pile... then back to the
Inactive Player: Declare if playing another Ambush card, place one ambush card face-up in his discard pile... and so on.


No, that's not right. First the inactive player plays any Ambush cards he wishes (one at a time). Then the active player plays any Ambush cards he wishes (one at a time). The inactive player can't go back and choose to play more Ambush cards, later.

The quote from Chad has it right (of course). And the complete thread is here:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/1264745
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chad Jensen
United States
Santa Rosa
California
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
1.6 Actions states....If a card is played for its action, it is immediately placed into that player's discard pile.

Sounds to me like if you have an Ambush card to play, you discard it (face up), break a unit. If you have a second Ambush card, you do the same. Doesn't say to play face down, bluff, or anything else.


This is exactly right. Sounds like you may want to search for alternate gaming partners, Brady, as the play you described above seems quite unsportsmanlike.

And David is correct above: When simultaneousness is possible, the inactive player must play any and all Actions that he wishes BEFORE the active player may play his first one.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jesse Herro
United States
Wilsonville
Oregon
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
On page 3 of the rulebook, column 1, red box:

"Important: In Combat Commander, the motto 'a rule means exactly what is says' should be the order of the day. In other words as quoted from another fine game Totaler Krieg!: 'Do not infer or imange more to a rule than is stated in it. When in doubt interpret strictly.'"

There is nowhere in the rules that states that cards can be played face down, or that you can 'bluff' the play of a card.

So you can't.

I also can't, among other things that are not allowed by the rules, put my beer can over the units on the objective so my opponent can't see who is there.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Read the rulebook, plan for all contingencies, and…read the rulebook again.
United States
Austin
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks for the clarifications, folks! That's why I like coming here!

Actually, our group enjoys Combat Commander quite a bit and we really want to be sure we play it right. Since I'm the guy with a copy of the game, they're looking me to make sure things are done right. Sometimes, if I can't pull up a chapter/verse clarification after a moment's pause, I'll let sloppy play slide so we can get on with having fun and finish the game. Then I do some reading, post here if I'm unsure, and give correction beforehand to the regulars at the next session.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chad Jensen
United States
Santa Rosa
California
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
Actually, our group enjoys Combat Commander quite a bit and we really want to be sure we play it right.


Brady: don't knock yourself out trying to get every little detail right. CC's system is pretty robust and will survive an occasional lapse in memory.

Quote:
Sometimes, if I can't pull up a chapter/verse clarification after a moment's pause, I'll let sloppy play slide so we can get on with having fun and finish the game.


Good decision -- playing a rule or two incorrectly won't keep you from enjoying the game: and you'll probably be surprised at how many rulings you actually get right when adjudicating on-the-fly.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.