Chris Clarke
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It's my rush. I attempt an evade and fail. Ball scatters onto opponent. He doubles his catch. With his free throw action he pings one of my guys in the head. Ball scatters onto empty hex. My rush ends. Opponent's rush begins. Correct?


My rush. I throw and fail to catch. Ball scatters into opponent. Opponent doubles his catch and takes a free run but must evade. Fails evade, falls down, ball scatters. I catch the ball. Did posession change hands? Whose rush is it?

According to Ending a Rush in S1, I failed to make a catch, which will end the rush. I also did not catch a scattering ball from any variation of case (4). I caught the ball after a scatter after a free action that was taken by my opponent. So it appears that my rush has ended, but when?

I've asked this question before but am still unsure I understand the answers in this thread Regarding end of rush and timing
 
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Mike zebrowski
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aram12 wrote:
It's my rush. I attempt an evade and fail. Ball scatters onto opponent. He doubles his catch. With his free throw action he pings one of my guys in the head. Ball scatters onto empty hex. My rush ends. Opponent's rush begins. Correct?


Correct.

Quote:
My rush. I throw and fail to catch. Ball scatters into opponent. Opponent doubles his catch and takes a free run but must evade. Fails evade, falls down, ball scatters. I catch the ball. Did posession change hands?


Your rush ends when all free actions are complete.
 
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Chris Clarke
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Right. The chain of events lead to my reposession of the ball, but it was the original failed catch that ended my rush. So even though I have the ball, my opponent's rush is about to begin.
 
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fightcitymayor
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aram12 wrote:
So even though I have the ball, my opponent's rush is about to begin.
I think I agree here, and the FAQ seems to agree as well:

The FAQ sayeth:
Dreadball Living FAQ wrote:
Ending the Rush or not causes folk a bit more trouble, though even this is pretty easy when you break it down. The original player only loses the Rush if he would have done so anyway (ie, if the opposing player had not caught the ball). So, if one of his players dropped the ball which scattered into the opposing player's hands for the Strike then his Rush would have ended because he just dropped the ball and lost possession. It ends regardless of whether the opposing player scores a Strike or not.

BUT... it does seem somewhat counter-intuitive that even though you started the Rush with control of the ball, and ultimately retained control of the ball at the end of the entire sequence, you still lose the Rush (solely because of the failure point of your initial failed catch.)
 
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Chris Clarke
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The way I'm currently making it work in my head is like this...

My rush. I throw and fail to catch.

Ball scatters into opponent.

Opponent doubles his catch


(Imagine at this point, my opponent doesn't take his free action. Or didn't double his catch, and just rolled a single success. My rush would be over, as it should be, and my opponent would then spend his first action on his rush. And if the ball bounces off my opponent and back into my hands...my rush would continue because in essence I've never lost possession of the ball, I just juggled it. They key here is that if my opponent catches the ball, my rush WILL END. The problem is this free action that comes next...)


and takes a free run

(this free run (or throw) is a part of/continuation of the botched throw/catch. It's not quite my opponent's rush yet. We're still in the "bonus action" sequence.)

but must evade. Fails evade, falls down, ball scatters.

(Just because my opponent botched a bonus action during my Rush doesn't mean initiative reverts BACK to me. You only "lose your turn" when you spend an action and lose the ball. We still have to "resolve" the original penalty of me losing my rush. Which is why...)

I catch the ball.

(...doesn't mean anything weird in particular. It just means my opponent's rush begins with me holding the ball dumbly as they swarm me. It's like the Ball just HAPPENED to end up in my hands.)


There has to be a level of abstraction due to the UGOIGO structure of the turns. You just have to sacrifice some logic to the game sequence. You can only lose your turn when it's your turn. If you lose possession of the ball during an action that you take, it's becomes your opponent's turn: even if in the resolving of that action, as above, the ball does all kinds of crazy stuff, even ending back in your own hands...or in your opponent's hands...or your opponent scoring.

The classic example.

My rush. I fumble for whatever reason. Opponent doubles catch from scatter and scores. It's now HIS rush. The scoring is part of the bonus action from me screwing up.

That was kind of all over the place, sorry. Hope it helped a bit!
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