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Subject: Countering the Black Goat's advantages? rss

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Adam Mitchell
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So far I've only been able to play three games of Cthulhu Wars, and the Black Goat has won two of them.

I put this down to Blood Sacrifice in part, but much more to the Red Sign! With that spellbook the Black Goat has three more natural power than any other faction and three more gate controllers! How does one counter these problems, aside from costly direct attack?
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non sequitur
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Mandelbrot/Simurgh hybrid etc etc
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I made both of these fractals, hurray!
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Solan wrote:
So far I've only been able to play three games of Cthulhu Wars, and the Black Goat has won two of them.

I put this down to Blood Sacrifice in part, but much more to the Red Sign! With that spellbook the Black Goat has three more natural power than any other faction and three more gate controllers! How does one counter these problems, aside from costly direct attack?


If you're in a four player game, the best way to counter this is to say, right after your turn ends, hey, oh crud, black goat is gonna get 19 power this turn, can you guys all attack him? If we all do it, it'll stop them from winning.

Then hopefully, by the time it's your turn again, black goat will be whittled down, your opponents will have spent resources whittling them down, and you'll be in a considerably better position.
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Adam Starks
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Direct attack is pretty much it, since you can't (normally) Capture her Dark Young. The good news is that even though Black Goat rolls a lot of dice, she's actually not that great at combat! This is because of a lack of abilities.

However, you specifically said "costly direct attack", which makes me wonder how costly. I've seen a lot of new players spend 5 or 6 power moving in a GOO, a couple monsters, and some Cultists, and that's an incredibly wasteful thing to do. Cthulhu can move a massive army anywhere on the map for only 2 power by using Submerge, Nyarlathotep can bring 2 Hunting Horrors in via Seek & Destroy, and both forces can 'seed' locations by Paining their monsters in from other battles, or even just moving your army in piece by piece rather than all at once.

You also have to account for abilities. 2 Star Spawn with Regeneration are incredibly resilient and roll 6 dice, which is enough to typically kick Shubby off a lightly or moderately defended gate. Crawling Chaos can grab Invisibility, then move in with Nyarlathotep and a couple Flying Polyps, and neutralize the defenders pretty efficiently (and if Nyarlathotep has Emissary, you can even soak a Kill on him to avoid losing a Polyp!).

You may notice that I haven't mentioned Yellow Sign: this is because they, much like Black Goat, prefer to be left alone. So really, the best way for them to neutralize Black Goat is to get Hastur out as quickly as possible, snatch Third Eye, and collect enough Elder Signs to end the game.

That being said, there are alternatives to Combat. Red Sign is great, but she still needs her Cultists for Power, Combat, and as meat shields. If the King moves in with Zingaya and zaps all her Cultists, even though she may still control the gate, that will definitely slow her down, and also make her more vulnerable to direct assault.

Lastly, don't be afraid to conspire with other players. If the rest of you notice that Black Goat is doing well, coordinate attacks! Have Yellow Sign commit to Capturing these 2 Cultists, Crawling Chaos to kicking her off the North Atlantic gate, and Great Cthulhu take out Shub-Niggurath herself. It's all about making full use of the tools at your disposal!
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Jordan Fraser
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I love when I read posts like this, as after four plays and zero wins for black goat, we had declared them the weakest. The game is clearly balanced very well. Crawling Chaos and Yellow Sign have been the dominant sides in our games.
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Dave Mendiola
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More than any other faction, Black Goat's power is in Cultists. They give defense via Frenzy, Victory Points via Blood Sacrifice, and dice for your Great Old One. Not only that, but they can't be brought back in mass. So an assault that wipes out a lot of these cultists does more damage to Black Goat relative to other factions.

Additionally, Black Goat is really just an economic engine. You're not going to outpace that engine if you leave it alone, so instead you gotta throw a monkey wrench in it. Cthulhu and Crawling Chaos are great at direct attacks, while King in Yellow can either Zingaya those cultists to slow it or use Hastur to kill Shub.
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Claymore Nash
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I think Mother Hydra is going to be Shubbies BFF. Zygote is sure to be a lot of help recovering those Cultists fast!
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Adam Mitchell
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Poserdisposer wrote:
I love when I read posts like this, as after four plays and zero wins for black goat, we had declared them the weakest. The game is clearly balanced very well. Crawling Chaos and Yellow Sign have been the dominant sides in our games.


Let me increase your enjoyment even more: the winner of our third game was Cthulhu!
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Dan Thorpe
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Crawling Chaos is my play groups highest winner so far but not by much. 10 games done and...

Crawling chaos = 4 wins
King in yellow = 3 wins
Great Cthulhu = 2 wins
Black Goat = 1 win
 
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Pieter Buntinx
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If my calculations are correct, now would be the perfect time to fling poop.
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Dlthorpe wrote:
Crawling Chaos is my play groups highest winner so far but not by much. 10 games done and...

Crawling chaos = 4 wins
King in yellow = 3 wins
Great Cthulhu = 2 wins
Black Goat = 1 win


Crawling Chaos has yet to win a game in my group.
The other three have each won at least two games so far.
 
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Mike Beiter
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Yellow sign and crawling chaos take most of our victories. Black goat has yet to win if memory serves.
 
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Simona Dostalova
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Our score is 3 Great Cthulhus vs. 1 Crawling Chaos
 
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Lincoln Petersen
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I think the most win heavy faction for us is Opener actually.
 
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Paul Johnson
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linkthestink wrote:
I think the most win heavy faction for us is Opener actually.
Is this affected by player preference any?
 
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Dan Thorpe
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linkthestink wrote:
I think the most win heavy faction for us is Opener actually.


Well I can only go off what I have available to play. DVM is on its way
 
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Greg Robertson
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Poserdisposer wrote:
Crawling Chaos and Yellow Sign have been the dominant sides in our games.

Crawling Chaos is more of a defensive faction. It's main source of offense is "Nyarlathotep" with the "Emissary of the Outer Gods" spell book. "Great Cthulhu" should be utilizing "Submerge" and "BATTLE" to send "Nyarlathotep" packing! Likewise, a stable "Black Goat" player should be using "Ghroth" to it's fullest extent against Crawling Chaos. "Black Goat" can also initiate small battles then utilize "Necrophagy" to drive out CC units. Yellow Sign can convert CC Cultists into Undead with "Zin Gaya". "Shriek of the Byakhee" when needed! Crawling Chaos is one of the most "Power Hungry" factions in the game. All of the spell book requirements cost a TON to fulfill. So be sure to deprive it of it's resources. If you want to set Crawling Chaos, then sack Cultists, Gates, and finally "Nyarlathotep". It's a tough recovery after that!

Yellow Sign is the one faction I hear a lot of grumbling about when it comes to victories. I believe this is due, in part, to people underestimating or not understanding the mechanics behind the faction. So... How do I defeat the Yellow Sign? Three simple tactics.

1) SACK! SACK! SACK! the "King in Yellow". Each time he dies, it costs 5 power to re-summon the "King in Yellow". 1 power to move a Cultist into an area without a gate. And 4 power to re-summon the "King in Yellow". That's HALF of "Hastur's" summoning cost! And you've set Yellow Sign back due to it's inability to obtain spell books through "Desecrating". Any Great Old One can specialize in this. "Nyarlathotep" should be chasing the "King in Yellow" around utilizing his "Harbinger" ability! That's two Power or two "Elder Sign" tokens per PAIN/KILL!

2) Declare combat against Yellow Sign units in areas with "Desecration" markers! Normally only one unit is present in order to draw power from "Feast" during the "Gather Power" phase. By killing units, you are depriving Yellow Sign of it's ability to "Desecrate" or summon "Hastur". Again, any faction can do this with great effectiveness! TIP 1: Make sure the "Black Goat" has acquired her "Necrophagy" spell book and has it's "Ghouls" in play. This will allow her to apply two additional PAIN results to help disperse Yellow Sign units! TIP 2: Make sure "Crawling Chaos" has it's "Madness" spell book before you declare combat! This extra step allows Crawling Chaos to further disperse Yellow Sign units when PAIN results are rolled! As Crawling Chaos, you can fly a "Nightgaunt" and a "Flying Polyp" into an area where Yellow Sign is protecting a "Desecration" marker. Immediately Declare Combat! The "Nightgaunt" abducts the unit out of the game Pre-Battle. No combat dice rolled!

3) The First Player always decides the direction in which the game flows. Make sure Yellow Sign is last! Why? To drive up the cost of the "Ritual of Annihilation"! Ok... Why do I want to increase "Hastur's" combat strength? To ensure he pays out the nose in power to get his two "Elder Sign" tokens! One token for the "King in Yellow" and one token for "Hastur". Yellow Sign will feel the absolute burn of starvation of power and "Doom Points"! Rinse and Repeat steps 1-3.

linkthestink wrote:
I think the most win heavy faction for us is Opener actually.

"Dragon Ascending" and "Dragon Descending" are truly two of the nastiest spell books in the game. Yes they are one time use... But when planned right, they will often win you the game! There are just so many ways of tormenting and killing with Opener. So I understand his ability to win a lot of games effectively.

Cthulhu Wars! Game responsibly.
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