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Reiner Knizia» Forums » General Creator Forum

Subject: Quantity over quality rss

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Jonathan Collins
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Am I the only who thinks Dr Knizia releases way too many games to the point where their quality seems to be affected? He hasn't produced a great game in almost a decade. He should spend a little more time perfecting his creations because he's slowly losing his credibility as a designer.

Quality over quantity, Doctor, never the other way around!
 
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Jason Miller
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Quantity pays the bills, quality gives him accolades.
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Laszlo Molnar
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jonjon84 wrote:
Am I the only who thinks Dr Knizia releases way too many games to the point where their quality seems to be affected?

I think he designed so many games even before he got popular.
But
- he got more popular so his lesser and smaller designs are published as well (no, it's not that 'Dr Knizia releases way too many games', it's publishers who publish his games!);
- he designs mostly for a wider group of people than simply gamers, mostly for non-gamers, newbies;
- what gamers need has changed over years which makes even most of his old desings kind of 'dated' in the eyes of new gamers (when I joined BGG he had 10 games in BGG top 50; now he has only 2 of these in BGG top 100 and Ra at #99 is leaving soon as well);
- and he doesn't have many new ideas nowadays which adds to the feel that his games are lacking.

jonjon84 wrote:
He hasn't produced a great game in almost a decade.

Well, that's certainly not true.

2014 - Orongo - I'm ready to say it's as good as many of his not-that-heavy '90s classics.
2013 - three really good games, The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey, The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug, Prosperity
2012 - Qin and Indigo
2011 - BITS
2010 - J├Ąger und Sammler, Keltis: Das Orakel
and so on. Maybe not all of them are great for gamers who nowadays like to think complexity=quality, but I believe these are strong designs that are as good as the non-gamers' games from his heyday, even if a relative lack of originality is a problem. But if you look back to his golden ages, you won't much more than 2-3 great games a year, and even then he designed lots of games.

jonjon84 wrote:
Quality over quantity, Doctor, never the other way around!
Let's talk about it again when you make your living out of designing board games.
I still think there is no big problem with the quality of his present games but they are simply designed for a different target group than us.

Still, it's true that even his lesser games that were published ten or more years ago usually had some creative sparkle that is missing from many of his present lesser games and this is something where 'quantity over quality' still can be felt - you can't have more than a handful of creative ideas in a year, whether you release 30 games or only 3 in a year.
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Christopher Dearlove
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It's true that we haven't had any new games at the level of Amun-Re or Blue Moon recently, and I'm fairly sure we won't see anything completely new like those in the foreseeable future. There's a number of reasons. You could say because they make less money, but it's not simply that. They take a lot more effort, and today there's a lot more competition in that market. You might be surprised how little they pay.

But it's not just that. Knizia Games' motto is "Bringing Enjoyment to the People" and Reiner definitely sees that as what he does. And a game that sells tens of thousands brings enjoyment to ten times as many people as one that sells thousands. And unless you really hit the spot (say, Ra) thousands is what even successful "gamers' games" sell.

That said, we've seen Orongo, probably more representative than Prosperity. And variants on a theme may be possible - I still hope that Stephensons Rocket may get reprinted with new map(s). And I've playtested at least a couple of games that while not another Medici I think are at least as good as Orongo.
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Laszlo Molnar
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Quote:
And I've playtested at least a couple of games that while not another Medici I think are at least as good as Orongo.
Frankly, were it published in the same year, I don't think Orongo would be considered a lesser game than Medici. It's got the classic Knizia quality of being better and better with repeated plays, after a few plays I even like it more than Medici which is also a very good one.
 
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Christopher Dearlove
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lacxox wrote:
Quote:
And I've playtested at least a couple of games that while not another Medici I think are at least as good as Orongo.
Frankly, were it published in the same year, I don't think Orongo would be considered a lesser game than Medici. It's got the classic Knizia quality of being better and better with repeated plays, after a few plays I even like it more than Medici which is also a very good one.


I'm not here to bash Orongo, but I think Medici is better. Of the classic Knizias, it's Modern Art that has dated for me.

But that you rate Orongo that highly is good, it means you got a new game you rate that highly. That's what everyone should get, from Knizia or not according to taste.
 
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