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Kingdom Death: Monster» Forums » Rules

Subject: Clinging Mist - New Settlement Jump Start rss

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Michael McMagi
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Okay, so year 4 I did fairly well, TPK by butcher but I had spent most resources and used all new guys. 8 people left in my settlement which has 5 innovations (hooded knight left with unfinished business due to butcher TPK, crap woulda got sword if not)

So we hit year 5, hunt a lion with all my best survivors. 2 die, 2 survive - a red fist zanbato user, an axeman with shield specialization and a round shield, we have our frenzy potions and bandages and some decent armor in our grids.

Now, survivors return, remove injuries, etc. Gain endeavors (4 for graves +2 for returning guys, so 6, right?)

Draw a settlement event - Clinging Mist.

Roll - 8.

Clinging Mist - I do not have Guidepost. So "Returning survivors must go on another hunt immediately without departing or changing gear grids, or become the starting survivors for a new settlement, starting with the first story settlement phase"

Now, putting aside how big a setback this is - and it is!

Why wouldn't I say yes to a new settlement?

Way I see it, I then go to First Story Settlement Phase - and see, they keep their gear grids (since the Clinging Mist card gets performed in phase 4,and gear isn't removed from grids until phase 8 when you choose new departing survivors)

So if I do this instead of going on a new hunt, I end up in a year 1 settlement with a zanbato, 2 frenzy potions, full rawhide armor, a bone sickle, a bone axe, dried acanthus, bandages, lucky charm, and fecal salve - the items in those people's inventories - giving me a huge head start on a brand new settlement.

Thematically I'm killing my old settlement, but hey, this new settlement will probably go all the way to the watcher.

Is there errata? Am I reading this wrong?
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Blue Dino Studio
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This is the way I intrepet it as well. Kudos to you for embracing the darkness angry
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Stuart Holttum
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Raeft wrote:
".....or become the starting survivors for a new settlement, starting with the first story settlement phase"
...
So if I do this instead of going on a new hunt, I end up in a year 1 settlement with......


This is where you're going wrong, and why it's not a super bonus.

You start a new settlement, with a First Story....but NOT at year 1, the way I read it is that you are still at LY 5 or whatever, but with no innovations or resources. Hence the Lost Settlement tracker on back of the sheet.
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Brian C
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Glad I subscribed to this thread now.

*popcorns*

(Either way, that particular roll on that event seems extra swingy..)
 
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Joseph Nudi
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Exo Desta wrote:
Glad I subscribed to this thread now.

*popcorns*

(Either way, that particular roll on that event seems extra swingy..)


You do restart at lantern year 1 minus the prologue. A new settlement goes on a new sheet and does not have any lantern years checked. It specifies to start with the First Story again. This is a reboot the way you first described and I've done this with a LY12 or so group before after a tough fight. Restarting with two well geared survivors changes everything...
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Brian C
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Blueskew wrote:
Exo Desta wrote:
Glad I subscribed to this thread now.

*popcorns*

(Either way, that particular roll on that event seems extra swingy..)


You do restart at lantern year 1 minus the prologue. A new settlement goes on a new sheet and does not have any lantern years checked. It specifies to start with the First Story again. This is a reboot the way you first described and I've done this with a LY12 or so group before after a tough fight. Restarting with two well geared survivors changes everything...

Wows. A game changer then. But now I'm sad I subscribed to this thread -- that woulda been cool to find out on my own! lol

Man this game sounds badass.
 
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Michael McMagi
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Stu Holttum wrote:
Raeft wrote:
".....or become the starting survivors for a new settlement, starting with the first story settlement phase"
...
So if I do this instead of going on a new hunt, I end up in a year 1 settlement with......


This is where you're going wrong, and why it's not a super bonus.

You start a new settlement, with a First Story....but NOT at year 1, the way I read it is that you are still at LY 5 or whatever, but with no innovations or resources. Hence the Lost Settlement tracker on back of the sheet.


Well, given what the card says. Like the Clinging Mist card says "use the first story card", and the book is very specific about how you do first settlement cards/what you do including the actual text "follow the first story card, get a new survival record sheet" etc - it puts those 2 survivors in the position of "people who survived the prologue" - which seems to make sense both thematically and on the card.

This is why I think this might get errata since it is an advantage if you follow the rules as written.

But you ARE making a pretty horrible in-character moral choice to doom your first settlement, and if any lucky innovation rolls or lots of resources were in it, you'd probably go New Hunt.
 
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Nick Wirtz
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Lost settlements records ones across multiple campaigns. No way a single campaign loses 20 settlements in 25 years. Game's deadly, not like that unless you're actively killing your guys.

Pretty sure it's a complete reset but with some buff survivors.

On the choice, completely depends. We'd just come back from an easier hunt when we hit it, so just thought of it as a bonus year of resources instead of 5 years or whatever.

The biggest reasons to reset IMHO are:
-you have a bad set of innovations/other things you want to re-do
-you came back from a rough hunt and are attached to whoever came back
 
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Damien M
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My group got this settlement event as well and benefited highly from it.

Raeft wrote:
2 die, 2 survive


Just remember, when a survivor dies, their gear is immediately returned to the settlement storage. The only gear you get to keep when you reset is what is equipped to the returning survivors.
 
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David Ainsworth
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I also am of the opinion that it's a full reset, back at LY1.
 
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Brett Burleigh II
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Bless the Maker and His water... Bless the coming and going of Him... May His passage cleanse the world...
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I think John (Hellena Handbasket) was talking about getting this card circa LY20...
One survivor has the Perfect Slayer and some other badass gear, and the other survivor was pretty decked out, too.

I think this was immediately following a Showdown with the Legendary Beast of 1000 Sorrows (haven't looked up the name, may not be exact) - one which he commented as having restarted 5 times... and he named his new settlement Cheater's Overlook in their honor.

(I recall he got the events to get the slayer, and lost 2/4 of his survivors in the Hunt outright, and the Beast killed both of his survivors before they could even activate, so he restated... which the Beast slayed then again the same way... like I said, I think it was 5 restarts) laugh
 
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Stuart Holttum
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Seems I'm outvoted - but I was going with the Rule of Death. To start a new campaign with four tooled up characters would make the game a lot easier....and therefore shouldn't happen!
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Brett Burleigh II
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Stu Holttum wrote:
Seems I'm outvoted - but I was going with the Rule of Death. To start a new campaign with four tooled up characters would make the game a lot easier....and therefore shouldn't happen!


But it's a bit limited… Can be, rather.

Think of like those four stumble off into the wilds and come across a new Hoard with huddled up, nameless survivors and begin fresh.


(Who cares what the Watcher does to the other Settlement)…

Also, Rule of Death, while awesome and cruel and perfectly thematic is usually used to decide disagreements between players - not to decide every little action.

John also mentioned that the Levels of Monsters is a nice way to temper the risks/rewards of a refreshed campaign…

So, Clinging Mists is a way to refresh - I am still yet to face the Phoenix, and I would love to see that NG+ effect..!
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Phoenix Bird
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Nothing happens to your old settlement.

It carries on with all its resources and innovations and time as normal but four people never came back from the hunt and they only found two bodies.

Think of it as a split in the card game Blackjack. You are now playing two hands of cards.

Your two survivors with all their gear grid cards, everything written on their survivor sheets mysteriously appears (via Ravenloft) in a new settlement on page 34. Make sure it is 34 and not page 79 as they are different.

You can argue that you keep your current survival as you did not gain any survival above the Survival Limit after the settlement came into existence. But it is implied the excess is lost. Semantics. P220, 41

You will also lose Language, Surge, Dash and Encourage. Technically you won’t but you can’t use the action even though it is not removed from your survivor sheet if you don’t have the innovation. P215, 216, 220

Any resources on cards (like acanthus and testicles) the two survivors picked up on the hunt and showdown phases stay in the old settlement and can’t be taken out. P57

Your old settlement gains the Endeavours for your two dead and two returning survivors. Endeavours never go to individual survivors they only go to the Settlement itself. P216 & P80

Your new settlement doesn’t get any Endeavours as you aren’t a Returning Survivor on the page 34 definition because you didn’t complete the page 26 showdown but completed the page 80 one. So you can’t Endeavour or build any starting locations at the new settlement.

You roll population on “The First Day” Settlement Card.

Now you alter your gear grid and if you want. Your wounds and armour heal and you go straight to hunt which must be a White Lion but you get to choose your level.

You must have a party of four but it can be composed of old and new survivors. P81

Remember you didn’t arrive here via the Game Over table so your new settlement does not get the bonuses from any Lost Settlement milestones. (Think of yourself in Ravenloft – unless you were born after 1990.)

I hope you find this helpful. But remember it’s your game so there is no right answer.

Phoenix
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Bob Bob
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A tangential Question on this event- we'd just come back from a relatively easy hunt with nary a scratch on us, so we just took the bonus hunt. Since it says we leave immediately, with no preparations, what happens to the Endeavor we generated? It's determined before the Settlement Event resolves, and Clinging Mists forces a new hunt before the timeline is updated, several steps before the End of Settlement phase when unused Endeavor is lost, so when we come back from the second hunt, do we generate 4 (5 in our case due to Tinker) more, effectively doubling the years Endeavors?
Rule of Death kind of tells me that the first set of Endeavor is lost, but the rules as written are somewhat unclear.
 
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Damien M
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HandofBobb wrote:
Rule of Death kind of tells me that the first set of Endeavor is lost, but the rules as written are somewhat unclear.


Can everyone please stop this? This is not what the Rule of Death says, nor what it is for.
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Bob Bob
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I dunno- I've seen some cases where people are misinterpreting it, but I'd say our particular case is a pretty clear example of when to invoke it.
Rule of Death states "When conflict arises over contradictions in rules, apply specific rules found on card and story events before any rules found in the Rulebook"
There's nothing explicitly on the Card or in the Rulebook- do we end the current Settlement phase (losing the Endeavor), do we skip the rest of the curremt Settlement phase (Including the 'lose excess Endeavors" step- like in Magic, if you somehow skip the rest of the turn, you skip your Discard step) or is it just put on hold (same phase but two hunts, so only one set of Returning Survivors= only generate Endeavor once)?

"If conflict arises that slow or halt a play session, use the Rule of Death: always rule against the survivors"
It wasn't really stopping play, but we were kind of split on the decision, thus we referred to the Rule of Death.

"make sure that any ambiguities resolve against the Survivors' favor."
We did, and ruled the extra Endeavors lost- but I was curious what other people's take on the situation was.
 
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Damien M
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There is no conflict here unless I'm missing something. You do steps 1-4 of the settlement phase, gain endeavors, go on a hunt, then come back and gain more endeavors on step 3 again.
 
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Joseph Nudi
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Aren't Endeavors not used during a settlement phase lost? If you depart on another (even mandatory) hunt I don't think they accumulate between.
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Damien M
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You only lose them in step 10 of the settlement phase. If you never actually go to step 10, you can't lose them.
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Phoenix Bird
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The key word here is “Immediately.”

You depart for the new hunt in Settlement Step 4 not step 8. You return back in step 2 and generate a second set of Endeavours just as Damien points out. You then draw another Settlement Event Card which can’t be Clinging Mists twice in the same Phase.

It is, as you say, a bonus hunt.

Phoenix
 
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Bob Bob
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Phoenix_Bird wrote:
The key word here is “Immediately.”

You depart for the new hunt in Settlement Step 4 not step 8. You return back in step 2 and generate a second set of Endeavours just as Damien points out. You then draw another Settlement Event Card which can’t be Clinging Mists twice in the same Phase.

It is, as you say, a bonus hunt.

Phoenix

Entice wrote:
You only lose them in step 10 of the settlement phase. If you never actually go to step 10, you can't lose them.


See, I'm totally cool with this interpretation, but that's still all they are, interpretations- there's no clear rules on this particular effect. The ambiguity lies in when exactly floating Endeavor is lost- does it only vanish at Step 10 of the Settlement Phase, or is it lost whenever you leave the Settlement Phase, for whatever reason?

In fact, this event brings up a bunch of other questions- since we already had a successful hunt, if we failed the second one, would the Settlement suffer from Starvation? and at what point do the Resources we gained from the original hunt become Settlement property? do the ones gained in the first hunt remain removed from their respective decka, thereby making them unable to be gained from the second hunt? (wouldn't have matterend much in this case, but it does call up the image of an eyeless lion with no mane or testiclse...)
 
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Damien M
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HandofBobb wrote:
See, I'm totally cool with this interpretation, but that's still all they are, interpretations- there's no clear rules on this particular effect. The ambiguity lies in when exactly floating Endeavor is lost- does it only vanish at Step 10 of the Settlement Phase, or is it lost whenever you leave the Settlement Phase, for whatever reason?

In fact, this event brings up a bunch of other questions- since we already had a successful hunt, if we failed the second one, would the Settlement suffer from Starvation? and at what point do the Resources we gained from the original hunt become Settlement property? do the ones gained in the first hunt remain removed from their respective decka, thereby making them unable to be gained from the second hunt? (wouldn't have matterend much in this case, but it does call up the image of an eyeless lion with no mane or testiclse...)


Yes, you would suffer from starvation. You could imagine the food that you brought back from the first hunt rotted.

Resources only go into storage during step 9 of the settlement phase (Page 81). You'll have to carry all the resources into that 2nd hunt and hopefully come back alive again.

They're definitely interpretations, but I'm not seeing anything that contradicts it.
 
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Nicole Ryn
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Somewhat unrelated, but has anyone considered playing the abandoned settlement to completion? Remove any gear that the party was carrying when they disappear into the mists, and try to finish the campaign? I've never had the mists event, but it would be fun to see the other side of the coin all the way to the end.
 
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Damien M
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Both times it has happened to me, there had been little to no gear or resources left. I would've been at Lantern Year 4 or 6 with a bunch of innovations, a sword, maybe a piece of cloth or two, and that's it. My departing survivors almost always carry basically everything the settlement owns. I wrote them all off as dead. sauron
 
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