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Subject: Germany plans to jail gamers and designers rss

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Not sure if this is off topic, or maybe it could affect us too?

http://uk.gamespot.com/news/6163059.html?sid=6163059&tag=lat...;title;4
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So much for burning meeples as kindling.
 
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Gerald M. Zabos
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paulclarke339 wrote:
Not sure if this is off topic, or maybe it could affect us too?

http://uk.gamespot.com/news/6163059.html?sid=6163059&tag=lat...;title;4


I don't think so. Beckstein, the bavarian Minister of Interior, and few more planed to put a ban on computer games - ego shooters to be more exact. The federal Ministry of Justice already declined any attempts into that direction, because of the existing law already punishing sort of violence and so on. So my opinion: this will affect you, as soon as you plan to join our ministers in their parallel universe in which they live.
 
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andreo
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paulclarke339 wrote:
Not sure if this is off topic, or maybe it could affect us too?


This discussion about violence in videogames arises every now and then,
but up to now nothing big had happened.
It is quite annoying, however, that some publishers release 'special German versions' that contain no blood or robots instead of real soldiers.



 
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Seth Owen
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I doubt many gamers would think they'd need the First Amendment in order to play their games without fear, but I guess there's some educational value in this.
 
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Leo Zappa
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Why do German governments always seem to swing to wild extremes? Either we are killing everyone and taking over the world, OR, we forbid anyone from harming another human being, including anything that even looks like a human being. I mean, can we pick a nice middle-of-the-road position for a change, guys? I will say, however, if the rest of the world has a choice, we'll take the present-day German government to those of the past any day.
 
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samoan_jo wrote:
paulclarke339 wrote:
Not sure if this is off topic, or maybe it could affect us too?


This discussion about violence in videogames arises every now and then,
but up to now nothing big had happened.


I agree. And in America our Civil Rights are ours Damn It!! I do think that the violence in video games is a valid discussion, but I am a mom of 3 and it's my job to monitor my girls. They do have Grand Thef Auto and they know if they repeat ANYTHING that is inappropriat(spelling help?) I'll kick their cute little butts for throwing away all those years of parenting I've worked so hard at!!!
Not all kids are so lucky. Their parents use video and TV as a baby sitter.
Thats why "It takes a village (no no not a WereWolf game) to raise a child"...
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Evan Stegman
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"...proposed legislation..."

Wake me if it actually passes.
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Wolfgang Kunz
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desertfox2004 wrote:
Why do German governments always seem to swing to wild extremes? Either we are killing everyone and taking over the world, OR, we forbid anyone from harming another human being, including anything that even looks like a human being. I mean, can we pick a nice middle-of-the-road position for a change, guys? I will say, however, if the rest of the world has a choice, we'll take the present-day German government to those of the past any day.


Oh please, no generalization - you would fall in the same pit these guys are in.

Warning: HEAVY SARCASM coming online:

A) Bavaria: A lot of nice people live there including some of my friends and a bunch of great gamers. This excludes the politicians (mostly). They are a bit - how to say it - left behind. No, not in the time where we have risen our right arm and yelled: Ja mein Fuehrer - just more back in time.

I think if they would have their will we would all be Catholics (no offense against Catholics here), voted only for their party, have sex after being 35 and instantly bred at least 4 children, women would stay at home and we would have a king - one like this guy with all the nice castles in Bavaria. I won't compare these guys with Rednecks because it would be an offense (of the Rednecks).

Right now these political party (the CSU) has a small "Watergate" running where the leading politician is faced with the accusation that he has ordered the "monitoring" of another female politician who is in the same party but opposed to him and yesterday the "may-be" - follow-up leader is accused (and they said on a German TV station "Pro 7" from the main office of the leader) of having an outer-marriage-relationship, which would INSTANTLY ban him from becoming the "follow-up".

Hope you can now understand a statement like the "we want to have this law".

B) As I said in the excellent discussion about the Swastika here on the Geek - and this is something one needs to understand - the government is heavily shortening the money on social work / social projects that are related to young people. They push a big amount of money in raising some universities to "elite status" and put money in some obscure projects that sound good but have less influence or impact on the youth.

The guy who did the shooting left a letter about why he did it. And even if it is not acceptable, the main reason was: "You have told me from the beginning - starting in school, that I am a looser and that this will never change. And now I will have my revenge on all of those who told me so".

No, reading and understanding / comprehending seems not to be an ability that a german politician might need. And for a politician saying to the news: Hey, we boozos did something wrong with our youth - projects, we should change our habit of shortening everything... - is impossible. (With a majestic voice): Those who are unfailable don't need to change....

Glad they found "Counter Strike" on this guys computer. Yes, there was the enemy. Ban the games, throw the game companies in jail, hang the players (oops, I've gone to far).

No need to ask the simple questions: What did this guy wrote in his letter - could we give him hope / a perspective? Where did he get the weapons (always something that seems to puzzle only me - all weapons are banned and you can't go in a store and just buy a gun)?

In one way I would like to see this law pass - because if then something like this will happen again I wonder whom to blame then?

Sorry if someone is offended with the sarcasm that is in my writing but sometimes you can only go on with this if you have sarcasm. We would have a lot better work to do but it is easier to just single out a small group and beat them down than really looking for the problem.

And btw: One thing our politicians never tell the people is, that these killer-games (as they call them) are banned in Germany. A lot of people buy them thru Austria, the Switzerland, Great Britain or even US-Stores. Now, how do they want to deal with this and in the same time declaring the EU - the "open market" - a new paradise for all the citizens? I know: Stop asking those stupid questions...

Never forget: A winning strategy in politics is a simple statement and the hope that no-one looks behind the curtain. Those who do can be labeled as "traitors" and taken care off. Sadly politicians are no longer "servants of the people".

It's so simple like math:
Those with computers are potential killers and have to put away.
+ Those with wargames are potential Nazis and have to be put away.
= This will make the world a better place.

Why do we allow the most stupid to become politicians and why do they always win the elections compared to the most clever who loose.
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M@tthijs
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desertfox2004 wrote:
Why do German governments always seem to swing to wild extremes?
LOL. Can you say "Patriot Act"?

This is just a big fuss due to the latest news. Media and politics. Man. It will blow over.
The whole world was shocked by the news about a 'pedofilic [spelling?] political party' in the Netherlands. Election time came and this new party is not even allowed to participate, because they can't get the few needed autographs (I believe less then 100, but I could be wrong) from fellow citizens.
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samoan_jo wrote:
paulclarke339 wrote:
Not sure if this is off topic, or maybe it could affect us too?


This discussion about violence in videogames arises every now and then,
but up to now nothing big had happened.



Nothing that can be directly linked back to violent entertainment, perhaps, but research has shown that increased exposure to violent media does lead to increased displays of aggression and changes in attitudes towards aggression.

Not that I'd want that to change anything about the games I play.

-MMM
 
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Octavian wrote:
samoan_jo wrote:

This discussion about violence in videogames arises every now and then,
but up to now nothing big had happened.

Nothing that can be directly linked back to violent entertainment ...


Sorry, that could be misunderstood.
With 'nothing happened' I meant that the government does not take action. No laws were changed up to now.

I don't deny that:
Octavian wrote:

research has shown that increased exposure to violent media does lead to increased displays of aggression and changes in attitudes towards aggression.
 
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Octavian wrote:
Nothing that can be directly linked back to violent entertainment, perhaps, but research has shown that increased exposure to violent media does lead to increased displays of aggression and changes in attitudes towards aggression.-MMM

Similar research was discussed in an episode of Pulp Gamer: Inside Track

http://www.pulpgamer.com/2006/11/07/inside-track-005-brant-g...
 
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Alphawolf wrote:

In one way I would like to see this law pass - because if then something like this will happen again I wonder whom to blame then?


We still got the satanists (aka Roleplayers) and I hear that recently CCG players are labelled as responsible for the downfall of the west/values/society/whatever. So there are some state enemies left even after that.

Alphawolf wrote:

And btw: One thing our politicians never tell the people is, that these killer-games (as they call them) are banned in Germany. A lot of people buy them thru Austria, the Switzerland, Great Britain or even US-Stores. Now, how do they want to deal with this and in the same time declaring the EU - the "open market" - a new paradise for all the citizens? I know: Stop asking those stupid questions...


Guess what: in 80% of cases we get the same stupid downgraded/censored games as you do in Austria. Not that it would be requitred by our law, but we are too small to warrant an own version. So we get the same crap.

And BTW - this is now an EU movement, not only a German one. So if it passes we will all have to look into importing from the US then...

 
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Wolfgang Kunz
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kilrah wrote:

We still got the satanists (aka Roleplayers) and I hear that recently CCG players are labelled as responsible for the downfall of the west/values/society/whatever. So there are some state enemies left even after that.


I thought we had finished the roleplayers in the late 70's early 80's. lol

But the CCG players sounds real good - to bad that the biggest hype is gone so we can't really blame some more. ;-)

Alphawolf wrote:

Guess what: in 80% of cases we get the same stupid downgraded/censored games as you do in Austria. Not that it would be requitred by our law, but we are too small to warrant an own version. So we get the same crap.

And BTW - this is now an EU movement, not only a German one. So if it passes we will all have to look into importing from the US then...


That's new to me - with the games. I'm not in this hobby but if you read some posts in certain forums it sounds like Austria is every splatter-freaks heaven. Uncensored movies and films aso. So this is really interesting to hear - thanks.

And the EU thing - yes again. Heard it in the news tonight and I'm still shaking my head. But (sorry, sarcasm is taking over) if it is a EU thingy we shouldn't be afraid - this law will need eons until it passes.
:-D

To quote chief Majestix from the Asterix comics: They are all so stupid and I'm their boss.
 
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JeremiahClayton wrote:
I am just curious.. what violent video games did Hitler play again?


Blitzkrieg.
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JeremiahClayton wrote:
I am just curious.. what violent video games did Hitler play again?


None - video games weren't around the...oh wait. That was your point, wasn't it...

 
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Neontek wrote:
desertfox2004 wrote:
Why do German governments always seem to swing to wild extremes? Either we are killing everyone and taking over the world, OR, we forbid anyone from harming another human being, including anything that even looks like a human being. I mean, can we pick a nice middle-of-the-road position for a change, guys? I will say, however, if the rest of the world has a choice, we'll take the present-day German government to those of the past any day.


vice-versa about US.


Believe me, there are a lot of people here who agree with you!
 
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JeremiahClayton wrote:
I am just curious.. what violent video games did Hitler play again?


I think he had the "Volksspielkamerad" in his Führerbunker for which his favourite games were "Lebensraum im Osten" and "Endlösung"...
 
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Alphawolf wrote:

That's new to me - with the games. I'm not in this hobby but if you read some posts in certain forums it sounds like Austria is every splatter-freaks heaven. Uncensored movies and films aso. So this is really interesting to hear - thanks.


Yes and no. It is sometimes very easy to get the uncut US versions of stuff (Uncut US version of Doom 3 lie openly aound in shops like Media Markt). On the other hand most people want German versions or simply don't understand English ones. So the shops are forced to have localized versions. But those are then cut again.
So it ends up being a gamble. Some time it is easy, some time - when the chains decide German is better - it is next to impossible. For example I ended up importing the US version of Prince of Persia III - The Two Thrones from Gemany (!) because every shop here only had the censored German ones. The fun part is that the German shop can send it without age check as I am in Austria in that case. Talk about weird laws.

Alphawolf wrote:

And the EU thing - yes again. Heard it in the news tonight and I'm still shaking my head. But (sorry, sarcasm is taking over) if it is a EU thingy we shouldn't be afraid - this law will need eons until it passes.
:-D


LOL. Looks like it failed last night anyhow.
 
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Tuomas Riekkinen
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Actualy EU is slow with directives, because the countrys need to addapt theyre laws to them, EU it self is decent in pace, so if that proposition passes it would take eu about year, and then probaly year or two for local goverments to addapt
 
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