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Subject: Going to Print rss

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Jack Neal
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This looks like an intriguing 18XX in that there are graduated ways to get into the game. The semi-random map also looks promising. I personally haven't played with 2/5/10 companies or bonds so this may be a way to saunter into that as well.

Looks like my Sunday filled up with printing/cutting/pasting. : )
 
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Jack Neal
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Perhaps not - I was expecting PDF's instead of PPT's. I will attempt to convert online but as a future consideration you may want to switch to PDF at some point.


Thanks!
 
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Brian Nygaard
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I was thinking the same thing. I bought the wooden bits for 18AL, but I have some players in my group who are terrified of "mathy" games. I think I'll push this up to top 18xx priority.
 
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Jimmy Okolica
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Raiderjakk wrote:
Perhaps not - I was expecting PDF's instead of PPT's. I will attempt to convert online but as a future consideration you may want to switch to PDF at some point.


Thanks!


Makes sense. If you want till Tuesday, I can convert the PPTs and .DOCs to PDFs. Sorry. I didn't even think about it.
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Jack Neal
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That's a nice geature - thanks!

The only other request I have is to pdf the raw image files - particularly the map. My old laptop is chugging trying to convert it and I'm not convinced it will do it once it does get done chugging it might not be the same size as the track tiles.

Thank you for your help!
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Travis Dean
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The way AAG made a PDF of their map for 1861 has been my favorite so far. The margins and cut lines and overlap were all useful for me.

A consideration, if you find it doable, would be A4 PDFs in addition to 8.5"x11"standard US size. Or better yet, PDFs that would print suitably well on either.
 
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J C Lawrence
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It wouldn't take more than half an hour to draw the map yourself using ps18xx.

As backing data, this took me about 90 minutes and is larger, more complex and included drawing four custom tiles/hexes:

 
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Mikko Saari
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Though if you don't already know how ps18xx works, then you can count 5-100 hours of figuring out, depending on your earlier experience with ps and related technology...
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J C Lawrence
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Admittedly I have a background in programming, but I approached ps18xx knowing no Postscript at all. Figuring out how to make a basic map without any custom hexes/tiles, just everything simple and straight-forward from the default catalogue took maybe a few hours at the outside (less I think, but I'll be generous) by starting with one of the many maps already in the system (I picked one close-ish to what I wanted) and seeing how it was put together by hacking on it and trying to make it into what I wanted. Edit something, look at the resulting map, try something else, lather, rinse, repeat experiment after experiment to success. It really isn't so difficult.
 
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Mikko Saari
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I've approached ps18xx from a programming background, and it was hard enough that for most people without programming background it's absolutely daunting.

Managing small changes for ps18xx PBEM play seemed to work out fine, but putting a complete map together is a difficult task.
 
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J C Lawrence
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msaari wrote:
Managing small changes for ps18xx PBEM play seemed to work out fine, but putting a complete map together is a difficult task.


Then don't put a complete map together. Start with something simple like the 1870 map (which is about as plain as plain can be). Grab a hex from the map. Edit the LayTile line. See what happens! Not what you wanted? Try something else on the same line. Maybe whack the tileCode line with the same number. Got what you wanted? Move on to the next hex. Lather rinse repeat. It isn't so hard, just a lot of little simple poke pokes and then seeing what you got. A whole lot of complexity submits well to small unimaginative attacks along with a little persistence.

This line:

(E11/0) -430 [] LayTile % Plain

Maybe it has to do with the hex on the map with coordinates E11? Dunno, but hey, its a guess. That 0 though, I don't know what that is. I'll try changing it to, ohhh, a 5, and look at the map again. Hey! The off-board in E11 rotated? I wonder what a value of 3 would do? 6? 7? 4? 1? Ahh! I see what that number does now. But what about that 430? If I change it to 700, just because that's another number, what does that do? Well, it complains:

Warning: Placing undefined tile #-700 at coord E11

Oh, that's a tile number! I've already learned two things. That means that there's a definition of that tile is somewhere, something that connects "430" with how to draw that off-board, something says that "430" is that off-board with those legs and values etc. Maybe that's the tileCodes line...it has a "430" in it:

tileCodes 430 [ 505 0 //tlRed //tlPlain () (20/20/30/40) 0 ] put

Well, the "20/20/30/40/" is the sequence of values in the off-board, so I have a good idea what that bit is. The tlRed and tlPlain I can guess at...I think I know what the 430 is, but the other 3 numbers...not so much. Time to experiment...Let's think of a new number...

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jim b
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I'm afraid it sounds more awkward with each such example. :-/

Also, when I looked at it some time ago, it required ghostscript (on the Mac, anyway)- which I've found quite invasive in the past- eg, affecting printing in general. I've avoided ghostscript ever since, but these concerns may be ancient history...
 
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J C Lawrence
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jimb wrote:
I'm afraid it sounds more awkward with each such example. :-/


Awkward, sure, but it submits to simple techniques mixed with a little persistence. No need to be clever: just ask simple questions and make simple experiments, keep notes, think logically, and keep at it.

Quote:
Also, when I looked at it some time ago, it required ghostscript (on the Mac, anyway)- which I've found quite invasive in the past- eg, affecting printing in general. I've avoided ghostscript ever since, but these concerns may be ancient history...


That's odd. Were you using Brew, MacPorts or some other package? Perhaps something which tried to be clever? Ghostscript has been event-free on all three of my Macs, and as an old-school Unix app it shouldn't affect or even know about OS X's rather baroque/non-standard print infrastructure.
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jim b
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clearclaw wrote:
jimb wrote:
Also, when I looked at it some time ago, it required ghostscript (on the Mac, anyway)- which I've found quite invasive in the past- eg, affecting printing in general. I've avoided ghostscript ever since, but these concerns may be ancient history...

That's odd. Were you using Brew, MacPorts or some other package? Perhaps something which tried to be clever? Ghostscript has been event-free on all three of my Macs, and as an old-school Unix app it shouldn't affect or even know about OS X's rather baroque/non-standard print infrastructure.

I dont remember.. I might have used MacPorts or something- I think it was a fairly direct install (didn't cascade to installing a bunch of dependencies), but it was a long time ago. Anyway, thanks for the reassurance that it shouldnt be an issue.
 
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Bruce Murphy
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On a modern mac, preview auto-converts .ps files to PDF for you without anything additional installed.

B>
 
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jim b
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Have you tried using Preview with ps18xx? I think I tried that more recently, but there was some cruft in ps18xx's [dated] postscript that the Apple toolchain didn't like.

I'd really like to be able to use ps18xx and xxpaper.

I will try this again (in a few weeks); if I run into issues I will open a thread in the 18xx family/forum. Hopefully we can document/resolve any minor nits in getting this working without too much hassle. (Thanks in advance for any help, then.)
 
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J C Lawrence
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jimb wrote:
I'd really like to be able to use ps18xx and xxpaper.


FWIW, XXPaper was written under OSX.

BtB Bruce did some nice XXPaper-akin PDF-generating 18xx work using ReportLab recently which has me thinking about that for the next major version of XXPaper. Good stuff.
 
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