The Hotness
Games|People|Company
The Hotness has gone cold...
Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
18 Posts

Fury of Dracula (Second Edition)» Forums » General

Subject: Events card madness???Evasion= too strong? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: FoD [+] [View All]
Wade Broadhead
United States
Pueblo
Colorado
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
So second game of FoD, and even with 2 engineers, a city planner, and an IT wizard it still took a long time. Someone really needs to know the rules (and have playing expereince) for a quick, smooth, game. The problem came with the event deck this time. There seems to be a bunch or really wacky things in the deck. Example: we had just about cornered Dracula in eastern europe when lo and behold I draw an event car- Evasion- which allows Dracula to move ANYWHERE in the map, so our hour of hard work is gone.... It really blew the wind out of our sails and everyone was very frsutrated. With some luck we sailed to his approximate location but if he would have gone to Galway or England we would have had no chance. I think most people hate games where some random event card just blows all their hard work. Anyone else have this experience?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rik Van Horn
United States
Livonia
New York
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It can go both ways. I've been Dracula and had the hunters pull out cards that open my trail almost immediately.
There's definitely some luck in the game.

And would it have been any better if Drac had drawn that card earlier and held onto it until he needed it?

Have you considered it may not be a good idea to take event cards if you have him trapped?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matthew Fisk
United States
Spanish Fork
Utah
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Wade,

You will notice several threads speaking of that very issue, and many people complaining of how frustrated they were when it happened. You did not know better, but when I introduce this game to people I ALWAYS warn them, "There is ONE card in this deck that allows Dracula to teleport anywhere on the board. If you have him cornered I suggest that you DO NOT draw from the event deck". With that warning, if it does happen they knew it might and they have only themselves to blame.

Drawing from the event deck is a risk. Do the hunters get a nice bonus? Do they give Dracula the card he needs? Choosing to draw from it is a part of the metagame here and makes it all the more enjoyable IMHO. The hunters can get cards to allow them to teleport right on Dracula (Sense of Emergency - three of them in fact I believe - and that doesn't even include being able to do it through resolve). Why shouldn't he be able to have one himself?

When I find myself cornered I often start playing mind games with the hunters telling them I might get away and they don't have a choice but to draw from the deck in hopes of a card to catch me. I do all that talking in order to get them to draw that card I desperately need, however the normal group I play with knows better now and I must rely on the draw of my encounters for a miracle (Fog, Bats). It is all part of the fun IMHO.

It is also a "Play Immediately" card. Dracula cannot hold onto the card for when he feels it will be of use. He uses it then, or never.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ben Wang
United States
west covina
California
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
I agree on Matthew's point. Hunters have choice not to draw event deck.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Wade Broadhead
United States
Pueblo
Colorado
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Good points. Luckily I play with some pretty good people who can overlook some of the things with this game. Others might get pretty turned off to what is otherwise a pretty good game. Yes, drawing the events when Dracula is almost cornered is a little riskier than I thought knowing this card is in the deck. I suppose I will warn people next time, but I'm not sure having to warn people about some really strong random event is good game design. That said, I dropped alot of money on this game and think I will love it in the future ojnce I work out the kinks/learning curve.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matthew Fisk
United States
Spanish Fork
Utah
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
We have tweaked a couple of aspects of the game due to some dang smart hunters and how they used to just save up resolve and all three of them teleport on Dracula during the day.

We changed it so that it took two resolve to use the "sense of emergency" ability.

We also have it so that you can only get ONE card in a city. In other words it isn't that you get both a draw from the event deck AND an item. You just get one or the other.

This two tweaks seem to have balanced the game quite well for our group.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Loren P
United States
Winston-Salem
North Carolina
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmb
You must also remember that the Evasion card can be negated by a Hunter's "Good Luck" card. So the Evasion card actually taking effect is far from inevitable.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Travis Hall
Australia
Brisbane
Queensland
flag msg tools
denverarch wrote:
otherwise a pretty good game.

Otherwise? Really, Evasion is an important part of the design of the game. The hunters can almost certainly prevent its appearance, but doing so has a cost. That makes the choice to draw and very important strategic decision, and without that, the game would be much the lesser.

As for resolve, the official ruling is that each resolve effect can be used only once in each round of play. So, only one hunter can use resolve as a Newspaper Reports, only one hunter can heal using resolve, and only one hunter can leap across the board to accost Dracula using resolve. Until next turn, anyway.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David
Canada
Ontario
flag msg tools
mb
Sylvus wrote:
We have tweaked a couple of aspects of the game due to some dang smart hunters and how they used to just save up resolve and all three of them teleport on Dracula during the day.


You should read the FAQ. The hunters are not allowed to use the same resolve power more then once per Game Turn. So if one Hunter uses SoE, no other hunter can use it till Dracula has had his turn. That rule is there specifically to prevent that kind of flying Drac gangbang.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matthew Fisk
United States
Spanish Fork
Utah
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Looks like I can drop that ruling out then and I am down to only one tweak :) I had read the FAQ but somehow I missed that one.

Shryke wrote:
Sylvus wrote:
We have tweaked a couple of aspects of the game due to some dang smart hunters and how they used to just save up resolve and all three of them teleport on Dracula during the day.


You should read the FAQ. The hunters are not allowed to use the same resolve power more then once per Game Turn. So if one Hunter uses SoE, no other hunter can use it till Dracula has had his turn. That rule is there specifically to prevent that kind of flying Drac gangbang.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ken B.
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Shryke wrote:
Sylvus wrote:
We have tweaked a couple of aspects of the game due to some dang smart hunters and how they used to just save up resolve and all three of them teleport on Dracula during the day.


You should read the FAQ. The hunters are not allowed to use the same resolve power more then once per Game Turn. So if one Hunter uses SoE, no other hunter can use it till Dracula has had his turn. That rule is there specifically to prevent that kind of flying Drac gangbang.



Is this in the rules or just in the FAQ? Can't access from work right now, but I don't remember that being intimated in the rules at all. If it's missing, it would be more errata than clarification.

If it is in there, chalk another up to "Ken's Misadventures in Rules-Reading."

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Travis Hall
Australia
Brisbane
Queensland
flag msg tools
franklincobb wrote:
Is this in the rules or just in the FAQ? Can't access from work right now, but I don't remember that being intimated in the rules at all. If it's missing, it would be more errata than clarification.

I'd call it more errata than clarification.

Of course, while I quite like the way the game plays, I think the rulebook is quite badly written. There are a lot of things that are explained badly and a few things that just don't seem to be in there at all. I've seriously considered doing a rewrite when if get the time (yeah, right, like that's ever going to happen).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bill Abner
United States
Johnstown
Ohio
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Agreed that the hunters can negate Evasion but this sure can frustrate new players who are unaware of it until it's too late. I introduced the game to my family over the weekend and it was a huge hit save for a few late game Evasions which really took the steam out of the hunters. (I rather enjoyed it, heh)

Tracking Vlad for two hours only to see him pull an Amazing Kreskin and vanish can take the wind out of the players' sails. I agree that once you get a better understanding of the game it's not a huge deal but you still need to HAVE the Good Luck card and that's hardly a given.

And how does a hunter avoid drawing cards from the event deck when he/she is low on viable weapons? It's hard to do much to Dracula with some garlic, a fast horse and a pistol.

I don't think this is a game breaker by any means; I love the game. I do think that being on the safe side and telling new players about that card, as well as the Good Luck counter, is a good idea.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Travis Hall
Australia
Brisbane
Queensland
flag msg tools
wabner wrote:
Agreed that the hunters can negate Evasion but this sure can frustrate new players who are unaware of it until it's too late.

Make them aware of it. "There are some really, really bad cards in this deck. If you draw them at the wrong time, you can lose the game because of that one mistake. So, if you believe you have the game in your pocket, you should stop drawing events."

Quote:
I introduced the game to my family over the weekend and it was a huge hit save for a few late game Evasions which really took the steam out of the hunters. (I rather enjoyed it, heh)

A few? There's only one Evasion card in the deck. How many times did you pull it out?

Quote:
And how does a hunter avoid drawing cards from the event deck when he/she is low on viable weapons? It's hard to do much to Dracula with some garlic, a fast horse and a pistol.

There are no weapons in the event deck. If you need weapons, you draw from the items deck. Be aware that when you visit a large city, you may opt to draw an item and not draw an event.

Quote:
I don't think this is a game breaker by any means; I love the game. I do think that being on the safe side and telling new players about that card, as well as the Good Luck counter, is a good idea.

Yes. That's exactly what everyone has said.

And if I was to rewrite the rulebook, as I mentioned, I would include a short section on "Strategy For Beginners", and put this in there in large font and bold type.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bill Abner
United States
Johnstown
Ohio
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb

Quote:
A few? There's only one Evasion card in the deck. How many times did you pull it out?


A few as in it happened in more than one game, not during the same game. We played five over the weekend. In one session Evasion was played on the second turn, which was interesting. My father lost even more hair when I played Evasion 2 hours into the game. My wife caught on after the first run and saved the Good Luck card for that very moment. Smart lass.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Travis Hall
Australia
Brisbane
Queensland
flag msg tools
wabner wrote:
A few as in it happened in more than one game, not during the same game. We played five over the weekend. In one session Evasion was played on the second turn, which was interesting. My father lost even more hair when I played Evasion 2 hours into the game. My wife caught on after the first run and saved the Good Luck card for that very moment. Smart lass.

Well, if you played five times, the shock of discovering Evasion exists obviously hasn't turned them away from the game. At least one player has recognised that you have to plan for such events to occur. Where is the problem, precisely?

If everyone was getting frustrated because Dracula escaped game after gave due to Evasion, surely you explained the obvious strategy, right?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bill Abner
United States
Johnstown
Ohio
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Wraith wrote:
wabner wrote:
A few as in it happened in more than one game, not during the same game. We played five over the weekend. In one session Evasion was played on the second turn, which was interesting. My father lost even more hair when I played Evasion 2 hours into the game. My wife caught on after the first run and saved the Good Luck card for that very moment. Smart lass.

Well, if you played five times, the shock of discovering Evasion exists obviously hasn't turned them away from the game. At least one player has recognised that you have to plan for such events to occur. Where is the problem, precisely?

If everyone was getting frustrated because Dracula escaped game after gave due to Evasion, surely you explained the obvious strategy, right?


I never said there really was a problem. I didn't start the thread, I just agreed that a new player can get very frustrated if not made aware that it can happen.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Neil Parker
United Kingdom
London (west)
flag msg tools
badge
Tat Tvam Asi
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Evasion= too strong?
Evasion can no doubt be nightmare card to draw for the hunters but i think Drax needs a little luck at times and as has already been mentioned you have the choice to draw cards or not. This is what i've done before when cornering Dracula in the Balkans. From Dracula's point of view if you do get the evasion card, try teleporting just behind enemy lines. I like to apply this strategy at the start and keep 2 cities or so away from the main group - a bit risky but usually i get to track the hunters for a bit whilst they are looking further afield. Cue ... 'He's behind you!'
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.