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Subject: Frigga's Charm + 0 cost update = gain 1 rage? rss

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Thaddeus MacTaggart
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Frigga's Charm lets you pay 1 rage less for an upgrade.
Precise text: Upgrade cards cost you 1 less rage to play.

So if the cost is 4, you pay 3
So if the cost is 3, you pay 2
So if the cost is 2, you pay 1
So if the cost is 1, you pay 0
So if the cost is 0, you pay -1

If you apply the math correctly and consistently this would effectively mean that you gain 1 rage every time you play a 0 cost upgrade while having the Frigga's Charm upgrade.

Or .. ?
 
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Andrew B
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Teowulff wrote:
Or .. ?


It underflows and makes your game crash, your clan board catches fire and Eric M. Lang breaks down your front door and forces you to listen to Viking Metal for twenty hours straight to repent.
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James Mathias
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Teowulff wrote:
Frigga's Charm lets you pay 1 rage less for an upgrade.
Precise text: Upgrade cards cost you 1 less rage to play.

So if the cost is 4, you pay 3
So if the cost is 3, you pay 2
So if the cost is 2, you pay 1
So if the cost is 1, you pay 0
So if the cost is 0, you pay -1

If you apply the math correctly and consistently this would effectively mean that you gain 1 rage every time you play a 0 cost upgrade while having the Frigga's Charm upgrade.

Or .. ?


No, you don't gain rage when playing a 0 cost upgrade while Frigga's Charm is in play.
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Jeffrey Nolin
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Teowulff wrote:
Frigga's Charm lets you pay 1 rage less for an upgrade.
Precise text: Upgrade cards cost you 1 less rage to play.

So if the cost is 4, you pay 3
So if the cost is 3, you pay 2
So if the cost is 2, you pay 1
So if the cost is 1, you pay 0
So if the cost is 0, you pay -1

If you apply the math correctly and consistently this would effectively mean that you gain 1 rage every time you play a 0 cost upgrade while having the Frigga's Charm upgrade.

Or .. ?

"...cost you 1 less..."
Fortunately this is language, not math.
Anything written after 'cost' is irrelevant, as there is no 'cost'!
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Kostas K.
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This is why we can't have nice things.
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Thaddeus MacTaggart
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Well too bad no-one can give a logical, reasonable answer.
Everyone seems to get quite upset by the mere idea that people could get rage from Frigga's Charm! While actually, paying one less (in by far the most cases) basically comes down to the same thing: you pay X, you get 1 back.
snore

I'm afraid I'll have to wait until Thiago chimes in with his infinite wisdom.
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Flavio Santos
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Teowulff wrote:
Well too bad no-one can give a logical, reasonable answer.
Everyone seems to get quite upset by the mere idea that people could get rage from Frigga's Charm! While actually, paying one less (in by far the most cases) basically comes down to the same thing: you pay X, you get 1 back.
snore

I'm afraid I'll have to wait until Thiago chimes in with his infinite wisdom.


Or you could use simple common sense... it is a form of wisdom, you know?
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Nicola Pertici
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I've never seen by far a game where a cost reducing effect gives you currency/resources back, so using a bit of common sense, unless it's explicitely specified on the card/rules, I'll personaly never think that cost reduction can give you rage points.
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William Curtis
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Reducing a Zero Cost Item by 1 in a game that has no Negative costs has hit the accepted baseline of Zero.

Hence - reducing Zero by 1 equals Zero.
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Thaddeus MacTaggart
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FaceTheFact wrote:
I've never seen by far a game where a cost reducing effect gives you currency/resources back, so using a bit of common sense, unless it's explicitely specified on the card/rules, I'll ersonaly never think that cost reduction can give you rage points.

Yes I understand that and I've never encountered it before either! I don' t play the card like I am suggesting!

But either the card text is chosen poorly or I am right. If you just see it through the eyes of logic or mathematics it clearly says "cost(new)=cost(original)-1" so the outcome of such a sum could be negative. Meaning you pay -1, which equals receiving +1.

wystan wrote:
Reducing a Zero Cost Item by 1 in a game that has no Negative costs has hit the accepted baseline of Zero.

Hence - reducing Zero by 1 equals Zero.

Sorry but that doesn't make any sense. This isn't "a game with no negative costs" as you do receive extra rage in a number of cases (like Thor's Ascension). Which is equal to paying negative costs.
 
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Nicola Pertici
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Teowulff wrote:
FaceTheFact wrote:
I've never seen by far a game where a cost reducing effect gives you currency/resources back, so using a bit of common sense, unless it's explicitely specified on the card/rules, I'll ersonaly never think that cost reduction can give you rage points.

Yes I understand that and I've never encountered it before either! I don' t play the card like I am suggesting!

But either the card text is chosen poorly or I am right. If you just see it through the eyes of logic or mathematics it clearly says "cost(new)=cost(original)-1" so the outcome of such a sum could be negative. Meaning you pay -1, which equals receiving +1.

Or maybe the fact that costs don't go under 0 or don't give currency back is took for granted since no one in board game history (as far as i know) ever did that and it's not explicitely specified in the card/rulebook.
It wouldn't even be the first "bad" wording/interaction ambiguity in this game, just checking from the various posts in this forum
 
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simon rorke
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Teowulff wrote:

But either the card text is chosen poorly or I am right. If you just see it through the eyes of logic or mathematics it clearly says "cost(new)=cost(original)-1" so the outcome of such a sum could be negative. Meaning you pay -1, which equals receiving +1.


Just stop, you know your wrong, you know that is not what the designer intended.
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James Mathias
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Teowulff wrote:
Well too bad no-one can give a logical, reasonable answer.


I correctly answered your question. Maths has nothing to do with this potential card combination.

When you have Frigga's Charm in play she reduces upgrade costs by 1 rage. If an upgrade card has a printed cost of 0, in Blood Rage it has no cost, and therefore is not affected by Frigga's Charm, the cost is not reduced, because there is no cost.

In Blood Rage a cost cannot be reduced below 0. Mathematically yes, but not in Blood Rage.
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Paul Newsham
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Every time I think perhaps we've reached a point where there are some things that don't need to be explicitly spelled out in rulebooks, a thread like this gets created.
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Thaddeus MacTaggart
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Tarnop wrote:
Every time I think perhaps we've reached a point where there are some things that don't need to be explicitly spelled out in rulebooks, a thread like this gets created.

Yes sorry, I couldn't resist .. devil
 
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Kevin Rush
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First, Blood Rage is a game with only Whole Numbers. Therefore negative numbers do not exist.
Teowulff wrote:
If you just see it through the eyes of logic or mathematics it clearly says "cost(new)=cost(original)-1" so the outcome of such a sum could be negative. Meaning you pay -1, which equals receiving +1.


You are extrapolating backward from the original which can cause issues. Why not read the card as NewCost = |1-OriginalCost|? I get almost the same costs you do.

So if the cost is 4, you pay 3
So if the cost is 3, you pay 2
So if the cost is 2, you pay 1
So if the cost is 1, you pay 0
So if the cost is 0, you pay 1

When you introduce negatives into a whole number system there tends to be problems.

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wystan wrote:
Reducing a Zero Cost Item by 1 in a game that has no Negative costs has hit the accepted baseline of Zero.

Hence - reducing Zero by 1 equals Zero.

Sorry but that doesn't make any sense. This isn't "a game with no negative costs" as you do receive extra rage in a number of cases (like Thor's Ascension). Which is equal to paying negative costs.

But again, this is a game of whole numbers where negatives don't exist.
 
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William Curtis
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Receiving a Positive is not the same as inferring a negative.

-1 Cost is not Equal to +1 Rage Gained.
 
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Thaddeus MacTaggart
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wystan wrote:
Receiving a Positive is not the same as inferring a negative.

-1 Cost is not Equal to +1 Rage Gained.

I wouldn't come up with this story at your bank. It works exactly like this.
 
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Jack Fleming
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Teowulff wrote:
wystan wrote:
Receiving a Positive is not the same as inferring a negative.

-1 Cost is not Equal to +1 Rage Gained.

I wouldn't come up with this story at your bank. It works exactly like this.


Not really, your interactions with the bank typically involved distinct types of transactions debiting and crediting your account. You can't make a deposit of -$50 nor can you make a withdrawal of -$50. The end result of a $50 withdrawal might have a negative effect on your account balance, but the withdrawal itself has a minimum of $0.

Similarly, you can't write someone a check for -$50 and if you buy something at a store, it has a minimum cost of $0. You might be able to get a rebate that returns funds to you after you purchase an item, but that represents a separate transaction. In a single purchase transaction (which is the equivalent of buying an upgrade in Blood Rage) you'll never have the cashier handing you money, no matter how good of a coupon or discount you have.
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Teowulff wrote:
wystan wrote:
Receiving a Positive is not the same as inferring a negative.

-1 Cost is not Equal to +1 Rage Gained.

I wouldn't come up with this story at your bank. It works exactly like this.


My bank doesn't deal in Rage transactions.
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Cameron Knees
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Teowulff wrote:
Well too bad no-one can give a logical, reasonable answer.
Everyone seems to get quite upset by the mere idea that people could get rage from Frigga's Charm! While actually, paying one less (in by far the most cases) basically comes down to the same thing: you pay X, you get 1 back.
snore

I'm afraid I'll have to wait until Thiago chimes in with his infinite wisdom.

If you went to the store and they were giving away free boxes of tissues, also you had a voucher for $2 off Tissues. Do you expect to get the free box and them to give you $2 as well?? ..... No.

I do recommend you buy some tissues for all the crying your gaming crew will do. When you hustle them with your rage gaining cheat.
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Hugh J Jones
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Ugh... I feel like punching my monitor after reading this.

If you get more than 99 points on the score track does your'e score start over at 1... herp-a-derp

BLOOD RAGE!!!!!!!!
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Michael Jenkins
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Sputnik Monroe wrote:
Ugh... I feel like punching my monitor after reading this.

If you get more than 99 points on the score track does your'e score start over at 1... herp-a-derp

BLOOD RAGE!!!!!!!!


This thread made my hemorrhoids explode...

Blood Rage
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Patrick Reynolds
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Frigga's Charm does give you rage, every time you play an upgrade card with a cost of 1 or greater. You effectively gain 1 rage that you would otherwise not have without Frigga's Charm each time you use it. Upgrades with a cost of 0, of course, cannot be reduced so Frigga's Charm has no effect when you play them.
 
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Matthew Bach
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I this thread was started by a Mystic Troll.
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