Recommend
4 
 Thumb up
 Hide
149 Posts
1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5  Next »  [6] | 

BoardGameGeek» Forums » Everything Else » Religion, Sex, and Politics

Subject: Another 'caught on phone while in the classroom' moment. rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Mike K
United States
Fairless Hills
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The world news focused on the 'attack' (for lack of a better term) by a police officer on a female student, while dragging her out of a classroom. Second straight day that I heard about and saw the incident.

(Somehow, I'm not surprised that this was an Algebra class. Also, I'm not surprised that a number of students are so quick to record the incident on their phones.)

Now I will NOT condone the excessive behavior displayed by the cop ... that video IS graphic and says a lot ... but can we please stop excusing students who do nothing in the classroom but annoy the hell out of the teacher and other students, then act like utter jackasses when told to leave, then refuse to leave ... as if they're participating in some sort of non-violent protest?

THIS is why I got out of teaching. This is also why I never see myself going back. Too much BS like this, by students who feel like they know everything and are too entitled to give a rat's @#%$ about what others (and especially teachers) think.

Imagine a class where three-quarters of the students were like this, every day. I don't need to imagine it; I need only reminisce about darker days.
11 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J
United States
Lexington
Kentucky
flag msg tools
admin
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
at least the teachers get paid. I feel bad for the other students too.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Vapix
msg tools
mbmbmb
It seems like an "accident waiting to happen" situation.

* The student was refusing to obey reasonable requests (one article said it started with cell phone use in class) from a teacher who (I suppose) is not allowed or disinclined to use force
* The officer is requested to remove the student, presumably because he's entitled to use force
* The student refuses instructions again, and holds onto the desk when the officer tried to physically move her
* ... pointless drama ensues


Almost everyone involved, directly or indirectly, seems to be at fault:

* The organization that approved deploying officers into schools specifically because they have the right to use force. Presumably this was done without working out what that actually means, and what tools and tactics officers may use in situations where force is requested or required
* The school for not providing guidance, equipment, and facilities for dealing with passive resistance, which is a very common tactic
* The student for refusing to obey obviously reasonable instructions, and deliberately escalating the situation. The student made the use of force necessary
* The officer, who should have figured out the practical limits to his right to use force in a school long ago. As a professional he should keep calm, manage his communication (which orders to give, which threats to make, tone of voice, choice of words, etc), behavior, and the details oh how he applied force when it became necessary
* It wouldn't surprise me if the teacher and some of the students contributed to the incident escalating, though it's unlikely it can ever be known (unless there's more video)


This will probably turn out a little worse for the officer than he deserves, but he clearly deserves some kind of sanction, so perhaps it won't be too unreasonable in the end. A common pattern seems to be some paid vacation, harsh words in the press, a delay while it's all forgotten, "voluntary" severance, then a new job in the same professional capacity at another location.

Naturally none of the other actors will accept any blame, but it could still lead to something useful. Perhaps the responsible organizations will finally devise sensible tactics and training for dealing with typical student behaviors. If they don't already have them, they'll have no trouble collecting scenarios they can analyze, and for which they can develop tactics.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Frank F
United States
Texas
flag msg tools
IF YOU WANT IT
badge
Please investigate a resource based economy.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Coyotek4 wrote:
The world news focused on the 'attack' (for lack of a better term) by a police officer on a female student, while dragging her out of a classroom. Second straight day that I heard about and saw the incident.

(Somehow, I'm not surprised that this was an Algebra class. Also, I'm not surprised that a number of students are so quick to record the incident on their phones.)

Now I will NOT condone the excessive behavior displayed by the cop ... that video IS graphic and says a lot ... but can we please stop excusing students who do nothing in the classroom but annoy the hell out of the teacher and other students, then act like utter jackasses when told to leave, then refuse to leave ... as if they're participating in some sort of non-violent protest?

THIS is why I got out of teaching. This is also why I never see myself going back. Too much BS like this, by students who feel like they know everything and are too entitled to give a rat's @#%$ about what others (and especially teachers) think.

Imagine a class where three-quarters of the students were like this, every day. I don't need to imagine it; I need only reminisce about darker days.


Sounds more like an indictment of the system than the students.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
In Time
United States
Oregon
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Home school=the answer
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Hefferan
United States
Saint Paul
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The videos aren't absolutely clear, but it appears she strikes him before he becomes "violent".

Seems to me to be another case where the left/media is picking the wrong "victim". Anyone who strikes a police officer will, and should, get met with overwhelming force. This isn't about race, or excessive force, or whatever the media wants to make it. It's what happens when you confront the police with violence as your stance.

The sad thing to me is that there is no shortage of actual victims of police brutality. The media and the left ponying up these not-victims just makes their claims of police brutality as a societal problem, which it totally is, seem invalid.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Moshe Callen
Israel
Jerusalem
flag msg tools
designer
ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ/ πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν./...
badge
μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος/ οὐλομένην, ἣ μυρί᾽ Ἀχαιοῖς ἄλγε᾽ ἔθηκε,/...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
What video are you talking about?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Vapix
msg tools
mbmbmb
Shushnik wrote:
The videos aren't absolutely clear, but it appears she strikes him before he becomes "violent".

Seems to me to be another case where the left/media is picking the wrong "victim". Anyone who strikes a police officer will, and should, get met with overwhelming force. This isn't about race, or excessive force, or whatever the media wants to make it. It's what happens when you confront the police with violence as your stance.

The sad thing to me is that there is no shortage of actual victims of police brutality. The media and the left ponying up these not-victims just makes their claims of police brutality as a societal problem, which it totally is, seem invalid.

While it's not reasonable for people to strike a police officer, it doesn't automatically mean they have to right to use unlimited force either.

They should always react in proportion to the situation. A police officer who is e.g. slapped by a schoolgirl in front of a teacher and the rest of the class has no right to treat it as attempted murder. Unless he was actually damaged (struck in a "soft spot", eye gouged, finger significantly rotated or broken, etc) the correct physical response is the same as for passive resistance.

Imagine another scenario:
The police officer knows he shouldn't use significant force on a pupil, and has a prepared solution: he arrives with a small wagon equipped to transport a desk with a pupil in it safely. He leaves the wagon outside, enters, and calmly says to the girl (who knows the options) "Please come with me to the "cool-down" room" (unstated "... or you and the desk will ride out on my wagon and you'll look like an idiot").

Ok - perhaps not the perfect approach but they should have already considered and equipped for this scenario.

There must be a much better way to handle it than a fight. IMO even the threat of a Taser is uncivilized. The pupil had to know she couldn't "win": she just needed to be offered an exit that she could accept despite her "adrenaline rush", and that wasn't too undignified.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J
United States
Lexington
Kentucky
flag msg tools
admin
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
They should have tried a different tactic before forcibly removing her from the class. That was never going to end well.

I might have asked all the other students to leave and go to a different class as a first step.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Agent J
United States
Coldwater
Michigan
flag msg tools
He's looking real sharp in his 1940's fedora. He's got nerves of steel, an iron will, and several other metal-themed attributes. His fur is water tight and he's always up for a fight.
badge
He's a semi-aquatic egg-laying mammal of action. He's a furry little flat-foot who'll never flinch from a fray. He's got more than just mad skills, he's got a beaver tail and a bill.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
When I was growing up, all the teachers had an air of authority that you didn't mess with.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andy Leighton
England
Peterborough
Unspecified
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
whac3 wrote:
What video are you talking about?


The Spring Valley High case.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/student-sla...

I would also note that Deputy Fields has form in inappropriately dealing with situations. He apparently emptied a full canister of pepper-spray on an army medic in uniform as he arrested him for playing his music a bit loud in his car when he was driving home and for calling him 'dude'.

Also the girl who recorded the video was also arrested for some reason.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andy Leighton
England
Peterborough
Unspecified
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
jmilum wrote:
They should have tried a different tactic before forcibly removing her from the class. That was never going to end well.

I might have asked all the other students to leave and go to a different class as a first step.


Yep - I mean no-one in that class is going to get any effective learning done for the next half hour or more. If you don't want a disrupted class then having a cop come in and throw a school-girl around whilst still in her seat seems to be the a particularly poor choice.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Boaty McBoatface
England
County of Essex
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/27/south-carolin...

Looks like he walks up behind her and then just grabs her, not seeing any attempt to resist until he grabs here. He also throws her across the room.

This by no means if the whole footage.

Whilst I agree that she should comply and only "fight" in the courts, the officer acts like a total wanker. I agree with those who have no sympathy for either party, but this man should not be a cop.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andy Leighton
England
Peterborough
Unspecified
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
slatersteven wrote:
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/27/south-carolin...

Looks like he walks up behind her and then just grabs her, not seeing any attempt to resist until he grabs here. He also throws her across the room.

This by no means if the whole footage.


Well the reports are even more damning. He asks a different student to move his desk. He shuts up her laptop and moves it to another desk.

The big thing for me is the reaction of the other kids. There would have been a lot more uproar if this had happened in any of my classes. Instead some of the kids seem to be almost resigned to it as if there had been a history of heavy-handed treatment.


2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matthew Schoell
United States
Rochester
New York
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Shushnik wrote:
The videos aren't absolutely clear, but it appears she strikes him before he becomes "violent".

Seems to me to be another case where the left/media is picking the wrong "victim". Anyone who strikes a police officer will, and should, get met with overwhelming force. This isn't about race, or excessive force, or whatever the media wants to make it. It's what happens when you confront the police with violence as your stance.

The sad thing to me is that there is no shortage of actual victims of police brutality. The media and the left ponying up these not-victims just makes their claims of police brutality as a societal problem, which it totally is, seem invalid.


No it doesn't. That is a complete and blatant lie. He has two hands on her before she even moves, and when she does move he is in the process of flipping her. "Confront the police with violence as your stance". What total garbage.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Hefferan
United States
Saint Paul
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Doc Mage wrote:
Shushnik wrote:
The videos aren't absolutely clear, but it appears she strikes him before he becomes "violent".

Seems to me to be another case where the left/media is picking the wrong "victim". Anyone who strikes a police officer will, and should, get met with overwhelming force. This isn't about race, or excessive force, or whatever the media wants to make it. It's what happens when you confront the police with violence as your stance.

The sad thing to me is that there is no shortage of actual victims of police brutality. The media and the left ponying up these not-victims just makes their claims of police brutality as a societal problem, which it totally is, seem invalid.


No it doesn't. That is a complete and blatant lie. He has two hands on her before she even moves, and when she does move he is in the process of flipping her. "Confront the police with violence as your stance". What total garbage.


Mature, indicating a different opinion is a lie. You don't get invited to a lot of social events, do you?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Hefferan
United States
Saint Paul
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
jmilum wrote:
They should have tried a different tactic before forcibly removing her from the class. That was never going to end well.

I might have asked all the other students to leave and go to a different class as a first step.


How much disruption are you going to let this delinquent cause? How far until it's legitimate to take harsh physical measures?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Boaty McBoatface
England
County of Essex
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Shushnik wrote:
Doc Mage wrote:
Shushnik wrote:
The videos aren't absolutely clear, but it appears she strikes him before he becomes "violent".

Seems to me to be another case where the left/media is picking the wrong "victim". Anyone who strikes a police officer will, and should, get met with overwhelming force. This isn't about race, or excessive force, or whatever the media wants to make it. It's what happens when you confront the police with violence as your stance.

The sad thing to me is that there is no shortage of actual victims of police brutality. The media and the left ponying up these not-victims just makes their claims of police brutality as a societal problem, which it totally is, seem invalid.


No it doesn't. That is a complete and blatant lie. He has two hands on her before she even moves, and when she does move he is in the process of flipping her. "Confront the police with violence as your stance". What total garbage.


Mature, indicating a different opinion is a lie. You don't get invited to a lot of social events, do you?
No, something something that you know to be untrue is, opinion or not.

As we assume you saw the same video he did, and as it clearly does not show what you says it shows that could be sen as a lie. Of course it could be you have not seen the video, or that you made a mistake.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jon M
United Kingdom
Hitchin
Herts
flag msg tools
Avatar
Really amazing. If a student continually disrupts classes and refuses to leave when requested you suspend and then expel them - not wrestle them to the floor and cart them out in chains.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andy Leighton
England
Peterborough
Unspecified
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Jon_1066 wrote:
Really amazing. If a student continually disrupts classes and refuses to leave when requested you suspend and then expel them - not wrestle them to the floor and cart them out in chains.


And as disruptive goes chewing gum and looking at a mobile phone screen must be fairly low down the list.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Boaty McBoatface
England
County of Essex
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
andyl wrote:
Jon_1066 wrote:
Really amazing. If a student continually disrupts classes and refuses to leave when requested you suspend and then expel them - not wrestle them to the floor and cart them out in chains.


And as disruptive goes chewing gum and looking at a mobile phone screen must be fairly low down the list.
I cannot help but feel there must be more to this then meets then eye.

The reaction was so over the top one wonder what is really going on.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Vapix
msg tools
mbmbmb
slatersteven wrote:
No, something something that you know to be untrue is, opinion or not.

As we assume you saw the same video he did, and as it clearly does not show what you says it shows that could be sen as a lie. Of course it could be you have not seen the video, or that you made a mistake.
Here's some text from an article on Buzzfeed (not a 100% reliable source BTW):

Quote:
[...]
A third video captured Monday as a school resource officer threw a South Carolina high school student out of her desk and dragged her on the classroom floor showed the girl punching the deputy in the face, officials said.

The video recorded by another student in the classroom “showed her striking and punching at the officer” as he attempted to remove the girl from the classroom, Richland County Sheriff Leon Lott said.
[...]

FWIW here's the link:
http://www.buzzfeed.com/tamerragriffin/school-officials-blas...

BTW I haven't read that article, and may not bother. I think this is already a mess, and it shows no sign of improvement as the spin doctors engage.
IMO it should have gone differently, regardless of whether she put up some token resistance or not. She certainly didn't leave a mark, or the usual token visit to a hospital would have occurred and been mentioned by the police.

PS: I just looked at the three photos in the article.
It looks like an accident, though the police officer (as the only professional involved) should have seen the risk /lol.

The desk is too close to the wall; the police officer positions badly (really badly); some arm-waving and kicking from the girl; and desk+girl (one unit) lose balance and fall.

I bet the cop now wishes he'd used something a bit more emphatic like twisting her head around and up.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
CHAPEL
United States
Round Rock
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
"that's a smith and wesson, and you've had your six"
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Just for the fact that there are police in the classroom to deal with minor cases of behavior issues is a little scary.

11 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Russell
United States
Clarkston
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
MWChapel wrote:
Just for the fact that there are police in the classroom to deal with minor cases of behavior issues is a little scary.



What's your solution?
My understanding (which could be wrong) of the sequence of events.
The teacher asked her to leave, then called the administrator who asked her to leave.

At what point is physical force acceptable?

I am not defending tossing her around, just wondering what folks think.
I'd suggest just sliding her chair and all out of the room.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Boaty McBoatface
England
County of Essex
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Vapix wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
No, something something that you know to be untrue is, opinion or not.

As we assume you saw the same video he did, and as it clearly does not show what you says it shows that could be sen as a lie. Of course it could be you have not seen the video, or that you made a mistake.
Here's some text from an article on Buzzfeed (not a 100% reliable source BTW):

Quote:
[...]
A third video captured Monday as a school resource officer threw a South Carolina high school student out of her desk and dragged her on the classroom floor showed the girl punching the deputy in the face, officials said.

The video recorded by another student in the classroom “showed her striking and punching at the officer” as he attempted to remove the girl from the classroom, Richland County Sheriff Leon Lott said.
[...]

FWIW here's the link:
http://www.buzzfeed.com/tamerragriffin/school-officials-blas...

BTW I haven't read that article, and may not bother. I think this is already a mess, and it shows no sign of improvement as the spin doctors engage.
IMO it should have gone differently, regardless of whether she put up some token resistance or not. She certainly didn't leave a mark, or the usual token visit to a hospital would have occurred and been mentioned by the police.

PS: I just looked at the three photos in the article.
It looks like an accident, though the police officer (as the only professional involved) should have seen the risk /lol.

The desk is too close to the wall; the police officer positions badly (really badly); some arm-waving and kicking from the girl; and desk+girl (one unit) lose balance and fall.

I bet the cop now wishes he'd used something a bit more emphatic like twisting her head around and up.
I cannot help but note that
A. the only video we have (which seems to be at the start of the incident) does not show her punching him in the face prior to his grabbing her.
B. No other video that I am aware of has been supplied.
So the police can claim all they like, until they produce this new evidence I will judge by what I can see.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5  Next »  [6] | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.