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Subject: Want Gamer's Game (Heavy) Suggestions rss

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Drake Storm
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I'm looking for the next heavy game for my game group. The game weight values on BGG aren't all that accurate, so I probably mean Gamer's Game a little more so than 'heavy' game.

Requirements:

1) Takes longer than 2 hours (our game group is slow so games that some groups can finish in an hour might still qualify). Also cannot be longer than 5 Hours (needs to finish in a night).

2) Sweet Spot should be 5 Players or 4-5. Would be great if it scaled well up to 6 or down to 3, but not essential.

3) Die rolling is ok as long as its not a huge part of the game (i.e. Risk, Titan). Also games people complain that are Multiplayer Solitaire Games like Princes of Florence are ok.

4) Highly prefer a game in print or one coming sometime soon. Have never used E-Bay, Paypal, or anything else that would get me an OOP game. (yeah I know I live in the stone age, oh well).

5) Like games with a little bit of randomness (cards or dice, etc.), or interaction (auctions, attacking, etc), or at least some hidden information (so don't always know the leader).

6) Group's favorite game: Age of Renaissance.
Some current likes: Power Grid, Puerto Rico, Scepter of Zavandor, Parthenon:Rise of the Aegean, and Imperial (only played it once so far).

7) Games that we have, but for one reason or another someone in the game group isn't thrilled about:
Age of Steam (everyone disliked it but me)
Twilight Imperium 3rd Ed. (Too long for our group and needs some house rules or something to be decent)
Tempus (almost decent just missing some complexity)
Struggle of Empires (decent, but seems like sweet spot is 6, not 4-5 because of alliances)
Manifest Destiny (just a bad version of Age of Renaissance)
Advanced Civilization (good but too long and sweet spot is 6 I think)
Warrior Knights (played once and it didn't seem playtested enough for what it was)
Leonardo da Vinci (decent, but seemed too short by a few turns)
Perikles (only played once, seemed pretty good to me, but rest of group wasn't in awe)

Some other heavier games we have played: Die Macher, Dune, Game of Thrones, Junta, Caylus, Princes of Florence, Titan, Traders of Genoa, Goa.

8.) Games I have researched and think might qualify:
Indonesia (seems like a good choice, but there are some issues with the board - fitting the bits, figuring out the sea borders and such, but might be willing to overlook that)
Antiquity (seems another good choice, but only plays 4 not 5)
7 Ages (assume too long for our group?)
Antike (didn't get a great impression of the game from reading stuff on BGG eventhough it is ranked fairly well)
Princes of the Renaissance (played once and liked it alot, but its OOP, and no guarentee group will like it)
Wallenstein/Shogun (Played once, I think the tower would be viewed by group as a little too random)
Through the Ages:A Story of Civilization (seems like a winner, but when will it get an English printing)

So what Gem did I miss? What great game is out there? What would be your top 3 recommendations?



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Charles A. Davis
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Here are some to think about.
Roads and Boats
History of the World
Britannia (4 player)
any of the 18XX train games

Good luck.
 
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Will DeMorris
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Quote:
8.) Games I have researched and think might qualify:
Indonesia (seems like a good choice, but there are some issues with the board - fitting the bits, figuring out the sea borders and such, but might be willing to overlook that)


Of all the Splotter games I think this one might fit your criteria the best. Roads & Boats is another option but some groups find it missing a certain fun factor.


Quote:
Antiquity (seems another good choice, but only plays 4 not 5)


Can't help with this one. I have no experience with it.


Quote:
7 Ages (assume too long for our group?)


Way too long. It has its fans but this game makes Civ look like a quick filler.


Quote:
Antike (didn't get a great impression of the game from reading stuff on BGG eventhough it is ranked fairly well)


I found it to be an ok game with some interesting concepts. But overall I felt like it was lacking some depth.


Quote:
Princes of the Renaissance (played once and liked it alot, but its OOP, and no guarentee group will like it)


Never played it so I can't help with this one either.


Quote:
Wallenstein/Shogun (Played once, I think the tower would be viewed
by group as a little too random)


Yes the tower does add chaos, but that chaos dosent overwhelm the game and make it feel completely random. If anything the tower really adds to the gameplay experience. I think your group would like this one.


Quote:
Through the Ages:A Story of Civilization (seems like a winner, but when will it get an English printing)


No experience with this one either.


Quote:
So what Gem did I miss? What great game is out there? What would be your top 3 recommendations?



Based on your criteria you might consider:

1) Shogun (You've already mentioned this one as a possibility)

2) Empires of the Ancient World

3) In the Shadow of the Emperor (only plays 4 but you can get it cheap)

4) El Grande

I hope these suggestions help. Once you decide let us know how the new game went over with your group.

-Will
 
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Paul Imboden
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Don't think that Wall/Shogun's tower is too random. The armies that you place in the system will eventually get their chance to shine.

Also, Lowenherz/Domaine and Liberte.
 
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Bill Skulley
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I'd say Indonesia and Antiquity are both decent matches. I'm random-event averse but I don't find the tower in Wallenstein (or presumably Shogun, never played it) overwhelming but I do find the game a bit dry. I did not care at all for Princes of the Renaissance as I felt the dice played too large a part (few rolls, but very critical). Sadly, I've not played anything else you've researched even though I own 7 Ages and Antike.

A gem I think you may have overlooked is 18xx. For 5 players 18EU is an excellent choice but it may extend some past your 5 hour limitation. There are shorter 18xx games like 18GA and 18AL but they won't play quite as well with 5. (Disclaimer: I'm an 18xx nut. Best game system ever, IMO, I'd prefer to play an 18xx over virtually anything else at virtually any time. I wouldn't say I'm particularly good at it, but I can't seem to get enough.)

I'd be interested to know turned your group off to Age of Steam, since it is one of the best put together heavy-weight games available, IMO. Top three for me would be:

1. 18xx
2. Age of Steam
3. Indonesia

If you toss out Age of Steam, make Indonesia 2 and Antiquity 3.

Oh, and you all need to move out to Colorado. Right next to my house would be good - its for sale and everything!
 
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Nick Fisk
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If you've only played Imperial once (and enjoyed it), it still seems unnecessary to go for Antike. Personally, I prefer Imperial.

Here's one that no-one has mentioned:

El Grande

Could well be worth a look. A 5-player game will take your group a couple of hours, by the sound of it.

Or, of course Caylus. Can't go far wrong with that one. Probably 2-3 hours for your group, hardly any randomness, a fair amount of screwage.


N.

 
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Gotthard Heinrici (prev. Graf Strachwitz)
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-Britannia
-History of the World
-The Napoleonic wars
-Shogun (MB gamemaster series, alias Samurai Swords)

I am member of a boardgamegroup with mostly wargamers. The two games I mentioned are the preferred heavier games in my group and requested most.

Hotw is not as heavy as Britannia and first time play of Britannia in 5 hours will be a challenge. However once you are familiar you will be able to complete it in a longer sitting. So much fun every minute!

A bit faster and different strategy is HotW. Perfect choice as well.
We are lucky that two players own Hotw and one Britannia so we can change.

Other heavier stuff I can recommend is the The Napoleonic Wars. Absolutely a blast to play. Yes playing Prussia is a bit dull the first few turns but I will always volunteer as I enjoy watching other players
unfold. Like britannia, first session can't be completed by any stretch.

The other fantastic game: Sgogun! Which is absolutely a blast to play and can be completed in one sitting. Forget the comments as Risk but set in Japan, this is rubbish. Also comments that the starting position determines the outcome is rubbish. Use alliances, diplomacy, mercenaries and the ninja (!) to control Japan. A brilliant game that is playable and very tense.



 
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Darrell Hanning
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My recommendation for a single game would be Indonesia.

The sea zone ambiguity has perhaps been exaggerated on BGG - there is really only one place on the map it isn't immediately obvious, and this can be cleared up in twenty seconds of pointing it out to all of the players. (It's the west tip of Bali, which touches 3 sea zones.)

"Crowding" is not an issue of functionality, really - more an issue of aesthetics.
 
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Russ Fade
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Quote:
Warrior Knights (played once and it didn't seem playtested enough for what it was)



Only problem my group had with this was the short length. Did you find other glaring problems? Extra influence fixed that and is a fix that is well documented here. Even so, it's definately not a "heavy game" and thus is probably not for your group anyways. A lot of fun though!
 
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Oh you seekers of the new who run terrified from history into the clutches of an eternal life where no electric shaver can be built to last.
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    Also consider Mesopotamia: Birth of Civilisation, although it only plays up to five. Can't beat the price.

             Sag.


 
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Simon Harris
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Harae wrote:

The other fantastic game: Shogun! Which is absolutely a blast to play and can be completed in one sitting. Forget the comments as Risk but set in Japan, this is rubbish. Also comments that the starting position determines the outcome is rubbish. Use alliances, diplomacy, mercenaries and the ninja (!) to control Japan. A brilliant game that is playable and very tense.


Harae,
I'm with you on this one - Shogun! is terrific. Sadly it is just a *little* too long for our group, we only have a 3 hour window so it doesn't come out too often. You've got to love the 'drawing swords' at the beginning of each turn to determine play order.

I also quite like Buck Rogers (in the 25th Century) which plays a bit like A&A in space but I fear it is probably OoP now.

Simon
 
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DrakeStorm wrote:

So what Gem did I miss? What great game is out there? What would be your top 3 recommendations?




Wow, you've really covered the bases already. There's not much out there you haven't tried or considered!

If you can get past the fact dice are used, History of the World is a fun time.

In the Shadow of the Emperor is one that people have forgotton about but is a great multiplayer influence/politics.

Even if you are averse to eBay, maybe you can get one of the others in your group to pony up or use their account to get their hands on a copy of something like Kremlin or 1830: Railways & Robber Barons, both of which are long, involved and engaging. I haven't played either but have been salivating over the rules for these for some time...

Let us know if you give any of the ideas here a shot... Good Luck!




 
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A lot of already good recommentdations already, so I will add a couple more.

Borderlands -- If you can find it
Tahuantinsuyu --interesting mechanics
The Scepter of Zavandor -- Lots more meat than meets the eye
Merchant of Venus -- Still holds up
 
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Chris
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DrakeStorm wrote:
Group's favorite game: Age of Renaissance

Conquest of the Empire

Conquest is a much simpler game, but it may satisfy in similar ways.
Quicker than AOR, more (actual) warfare, lighter resource management.
Nice political contention, more explicit in Conquest.
Both use event cards of a sort.
Still available for purchase.

DrakeStorm wrote:
Struggle of Empires (decent, but seems like sweet spot is 6, not 4-5 because of alliances)

Oh. I think Conquest is fine with any of these numbers.
 
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Scott Kelly
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Civlization/Advanced Civilization is a classic, epic game. It doesn't fit your time requirements, but if your group's favorite is Age of Renaissance, then this should be up your alley. I'd highly suggest getting this on the table one day instead of AOR. You won't be disappointed. Advanced Civilization will set you back a few bucks, but the base game is fairly affordable and playable on it's own.
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Scott Kelly
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Civlization/Advanced Civilization is a classic, epic game. It doesn't fit your time requirements, but if your group's favorite is Age of Renaissance, then this should be up your alley. I'd highly suggest getting this on the table one day instead of AOR. You won't be disappointed. Advanced Civilization will set you back a few bucks, but the base game is fairly affordable and playable on it's own.
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Scott Kelly
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Civlization/Advanced Civilization is a classic, epic game. It doesn't fit your time requirements, but if your group's favorite is Age of Renaissance, then this should be up your alley. I'd highly suggest getting this on the table one day instead of AOR. You won't be disappointed. Advanced Civilization will set you back a few bucks, but the base game is fairly affordable and playable on it's own.
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Kenneth Spontelli
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Wallenstein and Caylus would be the two that I recommend.

Wallenstein's tower should not be a negative. If a players cubes (armies) get caught in the tower in an early battle you can be sure that they will pop up to help him in a later battle. It works very well. Players' unexpected loses or victories are almost always compensated with an opposite result later in the game.

Caylus is just a great game. It works well with anything from 2 to 5 players.

If you ever have just 4 players try these:
Java
Tikal


 
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Chris Trimmer
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Hard to believe no one suggested this yet:

Revolution: The Dutch Revolt

You might also look at:

Here I Stand

It really shines with the full compliment of six players though. And there is randomness of card draws and dice.

 
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Antonio Chavez
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I think Wallenstein/Shogun would hit the spot.

Also, I may be crazy, but I can see your group really enjoying Mission Red Planet. It's very cerebral, competitive and has a lot of bluffing.
 
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