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Subject: [WIP] FRESH Big Time - 1980's Wall Street - PNP AVAILABLE rss

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Tim Davidson
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Re: [WIP] FRESH Big Time - 1980's Wall Street - 18 Card Contest Entry
Played several games today with different sized groups.

- 2 player worked awesome. Super happy with the game.
- Multi-player works even better, but it requires printing the cards out twice to make a deck of 32. I was playing with 5 ax, but Isuspect 6 would work too. But more than 2 player will technically be beyond the contest.

Minor Card Change

- The Jet! and So Last Year! "sell" didn't work, so I'm changing "sell" into a trade with top of deck. Also enforcing the type of share was awkward, using the card effectively will mean matching anyways but I won't force it. So the text for both is now:

May trade your share with the share on the top of deck.

This changed is already made in the low-ink file.

- Also for design, having colored dots for plus or minus amounts should make it easier to count. This would probably require removing the chart line, which I like thematically. I'll play with the design.

Rules Changes

- Each player can have maximum of 3 share cards. This works well.
- Each player also starts with 1 random share card (in addition to 1 hand card.) This really helps it get started with focus and choices.
- For 1 player, instead of randomly playing 2 value changes each turn you only place 1 and only if the player just played (not bought a share). The 1 played is on the pair you didn't play on.
- If you cannot play because you have 2 un-usable To The Max! in hand, then discard one (put it aside, not used in game). Your turn is over.
- Stock values don't go below 0. When scoring, treat any stock below 0 as 0.
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Tim Davidson
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Re: [WIP] FRESH Big Time - 1980's Wall Street - 18 Card Contest Entry
I've updated the rules in the first post.

The rules are actually simple and short. I think I could even be a little more concise than what I have (I repeat myself a few places). I have an awesome idea on how to do the rule sheet for the game, but I need to finish the full color cards and graphics first. Be done in the next couple days.


So far I refer to the numbers as stock values and, when you calculate your shares, as just points. This seems easy but it isn't very thematic. Referring to them as $, bucks, or Millions might be more thematic but perhaps confusing.

What are people preferences for what to call points? Thematic name or keep it simple?
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Charles Ward
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Re: [WIP] FRESH Big Time - 1980's Wall Street - 18 Card Contest Entry
TimST1E wrote:
I've updated the rules in the first post.

The rules are actually simple and short. I think I could even be a little more concise than what I have (I repeat myself a few places). I have an awesome idea on how to do the rule sheet for the game, but I need to finish the full color cards and graphics first. Be done in the next couple days.


So far I refer to the numbers as stock values and, when you calculate your shares, as just points. This seems easy but it isn't very thematic. Referring to them as $, bucks, or Millions might be more thematic but perhaps confusing.

What are people preferences for what to call points? Thematic name or keep it simple?


Is "grand" as in 1000 an option?
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Tim Davidson
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Re: [WIP] FRESH Big Time - 1980's Wall Street - 18 Card Contest Entry
ex1st wrote:
Is "grand" as in 1000 an option?
Sure, and "G's".

This is just how points are referred to in the rules. But I'm not sure if added a unit or making a share really a thousand shares will just make it more confusing, it will at least require some explaining.
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Hubert Spala
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Re: [WIP] FRESH Big Time - 1980's Wall Street - 18 Card Contest Entry
I didn't manage to dig through the rules and cards yet but I just have to say this...

THE GAME LOOKS AMAZING!

I love this style, the colours, the stylistic choices made here. If I would see a game like this on the shelf, I'd be interested instantly and would most likely buy it without asking questions XD
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Tim Davidson
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Re: [WIP] FRESH Big Time - 1980's Wall Street - 18 Card Contest Entry
Fireant wrote:
I love this style, the colours, the stylistic choices made here. If I would see a game like this on the shelf, I'd be interested instantly and would most likely buy it without asking questions XD
Righteous! Thanks.
 
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Tim Davidson
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Re: [WIP] FRESH Big Time - 1980's Wall Street - 18 Card Contest Entry
Full Color Cards are up! Rules PDF hopefully tomorrow. I'm putting too much work into it.



With this I'm totally breaking conventional color scheme rules. Just going aggressively loudly 80's.
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Tom Langille
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Re: [WIP] FRESH Big Time - 1980's Wall Street - 18 Card Contest Entry
This looks great. I haven't had a chance to print it bit I am looking very forward to it
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Tim Davidson
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Re: [WIP] FRESH Big Time - 1980's Wall Street - 18 Card Contest Entry
tubulidendtata wrote:
This looks great. I haven't had a chance to print it bit I am looking very forward to it
Thanks Tom! Love to play it with you and the guys (and any other boardgames you got) next time you in town.

I just finished the rules document. The goal was for it to look like an 80's style magazine. But I had to tone it down the main rules just to fit them nicely.



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Janine Viglietti
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Re: [WIP] FRESH Big Time - 1980's Wall Street - 18 Card Contest Entry
This game and the instructions look beautiful. Looking forward to giving it a shot
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Jeroen Paardekooper
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Re: [WIP] FRESH Big Time - 1980's Wall Street - 18 Card Contest Entry
Wow this game looks amazing! Nice 'Saved by the Bell'/'Miami vice' style...cool

Upon scanning/reading one of your first posts, I started thinking about an 18 card stock trading game myself. Just to say, I got inspired by your system of adding a value of +2 etc. to each stock. Now, my game is fairly different so I guess it does not count as stealing, but for my conscious it would feel better if you would give me your seal of approval to post my game.
modest
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Tim Davidson
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Re: [WIP] FRESH Big Time - 1980's Wall Street - 18 Card Contest Entry
namrevo wrote:
Upon scanning/reading one of your first posts, I started thinking about an 18 card stock trading game myself. Just to say, I got inspired by your system of adding a value of +2 etc. to each stock. Now, my game is fairly different so I guess it does not count as stealing, but for my conscious it would feel better if you would give me your seal of approval to post my game.
Wicked! Of course, I'd love to see what you come up with.

This 18 Card Contest closes at the end of the month, so get it in quick if you want in. There are other contests next year too, I believe a 9 card + some components contest is happening soon.
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Zach Anderson
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Re: [WIP] FRESH Big Time - 1980's Wall Street - 18 Card Contest Entry
Nice job! Things I like about this game:
-It's quirky
-It sounds fast to play
-You can easily vary the number of players
-It's compact
-And you have to be at least 26 years old to appreciate some of these references.

I really like the card called "So Last Year". This game does a good job of giving off the 80's vibe. If I can find time this weekend I might have to try this game out. It sounds like fun.

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Tim Davidson
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Re: [WIP] FRESH Big Time - 1980's Wall Street - 18 Card Contest Entry
ZubaZ wrote:
I really like the card called "So Last Year". This game does a good job of giving off the 80's vibe. If I can find time this weekend I might have to try this game out. It sounds like fun.
Awesome! Thanks, I'm super psyched people are feeling the theme! Let me know how it plays.

I got come color prints. The crazy colors actually work int he real world.

 
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Tim Davidson
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Re: [WIP] FRESH Big Time - 1980's Wall Street - 18 Card Contest Entry
I played a 2 player game with Geoff in the office. The plastic sleeves add a glare under the office lights, but they are a big help with these cards and the sliding.

This game is a best of 4 rounds. Which seems to be the way to go for 2 player.

Round 1 - The game got cut-throat near the end, we both ended up choosing trades instead of a third share. I went last, leaving Geoff with the value-less Tunes.
Geoff: 8
Tim: 13


Round 2 - Similar thing happened, I chose to stay with 2 shares rather then grabbing a useless third.
Geoff: 21
Tim: 14


Round 3 - This time we both committed to shares early.
Geoff: 10
Tim: 20


Round 4 - Think we both played well this time.
Geoff: 18
Tim: 12


I won a close game 59 to 57.

(Hope my math is right, I accidentally tossed the score card).
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Tim Davidson
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Re: [WIP] FRESH Big Time - 1980's Wall Street - 18 Card Contest Entry
I have a TOTALLY AWESOME new rule. A third thing you can do on your turn:

C) Cashing: Players may score points for the current value of their shares. Players and their share cards are removed from the round.

Instead of buying or drawing/playing, a player can decide its time to score their points for the round right now, and chill out for the rest of the round. This creates an awesome dynamic where you're always looking for the optimum sell point, just like real markets. And it can totally back fire! It gets players buying and playing strategies quicker, something that was needed. It also really solves the last turn advantage problem.

I've tested this with 5 players a few times and it's worked great so far. I need to test is more with 2 players (and maybe 1). Also need to consider GAME WINNING conditions -- probably go back to points.

I'll update the rules document itself soon.

I have one issue. What do you call it? I'm leaning swords Cashing, but that is grammatically awkward. I think the correct term in stock trading is Cash In, but I think Cash Out might sound better? More gambling? Or is it Buying In/Out?
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Tim Davidson
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Re: [WIP] FRESH Big Time - 1980's Wall Street - 18 Card Contest Entry
I've been testing the CASHING or CASH-IN action more.

With 2 players it becomes mostly a way for the player going second last to prevent the other from trading on their last turn. It doesn't make much sense using it earlier in the round, you need time to built up anyways. I think this is just fine though, a counter to last turn trading is a good thing.
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Jeroen Paardekooper
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Re: [WIP] FRESH Big Time - 1980's Wall Street - 18 Card Contest Entry
Hey, I've played the solo game. Works nicely! One question: in the solo rules it states that after playing one of your cards as a modiefier for two stocks, you need to play the top card of the draw deck as a modifier for the other two stocks.

If I played "Business card: trade one of your stocks with the top card of the deck)", does that mean I will need to play that traded stock card as the modifier for the other two stocks (since it ends up on top of the deck)? Or do I first need to take the top card from the draw deck and then place my old stock card on top?

Edit: Some text on the 'cover' of the rulebook does not show well when printed B&W.
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Douglas Rees
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Re: [WIP] FRESH Big Time - 1980's Wall Street - 18 Card Contest Entry
I'm really looking forward to printing and playing this (it will probably have to be in the new year though). Just one thing, the magazine rulebook is a fantasic idea. I hope it's expanded to a few pages (obviously outside the 18 card competition)...put in some suitably 80s ads (exercise classes, microwave cooking, etc) and perhaps a small article (hmm...fashion tips?).
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Tim Davidson
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Re: [WIP] FRESH Big Time - 1980's Wall Street - 18 Card Contest Entry
Thanks for trying the game!

namrevo wrote:
If I played "Business card: trade one of your stocks with the top card of the deck)", does that mean I will need to play that traded stock card as the modifier for the other two stocks (since it ends up on top of the deck)? Or do I first need to take the top card from the draw deck and then place my old stock card on top?
Yes, the traded share card becomes the modifier. My thought is, the solo modifier happens after each turn so after the card text is resolved.

namrevo wrote:
Edit: Some text on the 'cover' of the rulebook does not show well when printed B&W.
The cover is just there for fun, a complete waste of rules space. I'll probably tweak the colors though a little for next update.
 
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Tim Davidson
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Re: [WIP] FRESH Big Time - 1980's Wall Street - 18 Card Contest Entry
vialick wrote:
Just one thing, the magazine rulebook is a fantasic idea. I hope it's expanded to a few pages (obviously outside the 18 card competition)...put in some suitably 80s ads (exercise classes, microwave cooking, etc) and perhaps a small article (hmm...fashion tips?).
LOL, that would be perfect. Continue the overall sarcastic satyr with ads and inane articles. A good way to help establish the theme immersion.
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Tim Davidson
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Re: [WIP] FRESH Big Time - 1980's Wall Street - 18 Card Contest Entry
I just got my highest score ever in a solo game:

3 kicks x 15 = 45 points!


That's only 1 short of what I'm pretty sure is the maximum possible solo score, 46. That would require almost perfect distribution for the player to have 2 15s and 1 16.
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Steven Tu
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Re: [WIP] FRESH Big Time - 1980's Wall Street - 18 Card Contest Entry
Printed and played, solo. The mechanics of seeing the top card back is really smart, I really like that I'm pretty sure the 1a and other markings aren't meant to be in the actual final game, as that leads to a memory game of remembering which cards have which values, and that's a) not fun and b) tedious to take advantage of.

In a one player game it feels like there's a lot of luck involved, like I can't even bother to plan ahead. I understand that's how solo games go, so I guess that's just what it is.

The mechanics and the component use is genius, really like it gotta try a two player game to see if it feels less luck-driven
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Tim Davidson
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Re: [WIP] FRESH Big Time - 1980's Wall Street - 18 Card Contest Entry
Tuism wrote:
Printed and played, solo. The mechanics of seeing the top card back is really smart, I really like that
cool, thanks for trying!

Tuism wrote:
I'm pretty sure the 1a and other markings aren't meant to be in the actual final game, as that leads to a memory game of remembering which cards have which values, and that's a) not fun and b) tedious to take advantage of.
yeah, only to assist pnp. Meant to be ignored. If requested I can upload versions without.

There is a possibility of card counting being a thing if you figure out chances of +/- of the back of the random card [The shares]. It's only really relevant for solo. That isn't meant to be a part of the game, kinda too much work, but it is a potential extra dynamic for solo play.

Tuism wrote:
In a one player game it feels like there's a lot of luck involved, like I can't even bother to plan ahead. I understand that's how solo games go, so I guess that's just what it is.
yeah it is, solo needs that extra random card. I've found there is more room for control than you think at first though.

The game really shines in multiplayer I think.

Tuism wrote:
The mechanics and the component use is genius, really like it gotta try a two player game to see if it feels less luck-driven
thanks. The front-back use I tried it's in my space mission game Explore The Galaxy.
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Steven Tu
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Re: [WIP] FRESH Big Time - 1980's Wall Street - 18 Card Contest Entry
Got to try this two player yesterday, we enjoyed the design of the game, and the theme was awesome, but we found that there is almost always a "best move" each turn, and the decision space is very small, unless you got and memorise all the cards against their card backs, which is (as previously mentioned) both tedious and undesirable gameplay artefact. (And not always necessarily so, for example Eminent Domain: Microcosm has information built into card backs about the odds of the cards a given face-down set could be, which allows those odds to be part of the players' decision space without rote memory.

The stealing shares from the opponent cards are a premium.
The situation where you can't play either cards from hand sucks. I would rather if it didn't exist and require an exception clause in the rulebook.

Overall very cool, just feels very random.
 
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