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Subject: [WIP] FRESH Big Time - 1980's Wall Street - PNP AVAILABLE rss

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Tim Davidson
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Re: [WIP] FRESH Big Time - 1980's Wall Street - 18 Card Contest Entry
Awesome, thanks for the feedback Tu!

Tuism wrote:
Got to try this two player yesterday, we enjoyed the design of the game, and the theme was awesome, but we found that there is almost always a "best move" each turn, and the decision space is very small, unless you got and memorise all the cards against their card backs, which is (as previously mentioned) both tedious and undesirable gameplay artefact. (And not always necessarily so, for example Eminent Domain: Microcosm has information built into card backs about the odds of the cards a given face-down set could be, which allows those odds to be part of the players' decision space without rote memory.
I've played the game extensively. I do think there is more strategy and decision making than apparent at the start, primarily around positioning yourself to manipulate the stocks and then re-positioning yourself to points at the end. Even in the 2 player game, the familiar player dominates an unfamilar player quite easily often with over twice the amount of points. Perhaps that isn't conclusive though, I'm open to any ideas an the randomness-control dynamic.

The potentially for card counting based on back-front pairs is there with the 16 card decks, as we discussed. At this more casual level though, players seem comfortable just not paying attention to the other side of a card.

In the long run, after the 18 card contest, I intend on continuing with this as a slightly larger game with some sort of subset deck selection for player count, to prevent certain card counting. I originally planned on splitting the decks in two (that's what the sun and city backs were meant to be) but I've started to like the single deck dynamic. Still might tough.

Tuism wrote:
The stealing shares from the opponent cards are a premium.
Yes, the trades are central to the game as re-positioning is the main tool in most strategies. I considered just making it another action, but that didn't work well cost wise. So I settled on making half the cards some sort of trade. This is still the main area I want to tweak.

(in 2-player, if you are the second to last player and you don't know you have a good trade on that turn you should probably "cash-in" to prevent your opponent from having any trades in the very last turn.)

Tuism wrote:
The situation where you can't play either cards from hand sucks. I would rather if it didn't exist and require an exception clause in the rulebook.
To The Max is the other powerful card I'm considering. Being stuck with 2 of it in your hand is the one situation where you possibly can't play, and must discard. I'd rather if this weren't the case, but the card's play limitation otherwise works great strategically. Perhaps there's an elegant function I could add to the card itself? So far just discarding has been easiest.

You just gotta learn not to get stuck with To The Max in your hand when you have the wrong shares. But that's kind of a lame thing to say to a new player. Plus, losing a turn is a bigger deal in the 2 player game.
 
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Tim Davidson
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Re: [WIP] FRESH Big Time - 1980's Wall Street - 18 Card Contest Entry
I've posted a Version 0.7 update. However there are no real gameplay changes, so don't worry about re-printing. Changes:
- Renamed the "cash in shares"/"cash out points" actions to just "Cash and jet."
- So I renamed the Jet card to Fashion Is Danger.
- Re-did the lowink pages more line-arty and nicer.
- Created A4 pages.

The game is now 100% contest ready.
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Tim Davidson
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Re: [WIP] FRESH Big Time - 1980's Wall Street - 18 Card Contest Entry
FRESH Big Time has been selected as a Finalist in the 18 Card MicroGame Contest! I'm super excited to see how it fairs.


Behind the scenes I am continuing to test and work on this game beyond the scope of the contest. Right now I am working on a new way of cashing and scoring based on a suggestion from a friend, with the following changes:

- 40 cards: 16 deck + 16 deck + 4 more Business Card! + 4 new CASH cards
- Removed the "Cash and jet" action.
- The new CASH cards are now the scoring method. A player plays them to score Tunes and Kicks or Tech and Wheels. For example, if it were played on Tunes/Kicks, ALL players score their current share values of Tunes and Kicks. Then all of the Tunes and Kicks share cards on table, all of the value modifiers played under Tunes/Kicks, and the CASH card are shuffled back in the deck. Play continues to next player's turn. Now Players need to rebuild those stocks.
- The game is over when one player reaches 50 points (may changes).
- If the deck is ever empty then all shares are scored then and the game is over? (Hasn't happened yet in testing, so I don't know it this works.)

So far I've only tested this new CASH a few times, but it is seeming to work well. The game flows better. One big advantage is that one deck size will now work for any number of players. To The Max! still needs a clear fix, as having it with a CASH card is another no-choice situation. Overall, the new CASH seems to add more choices and excitement to the game. I will need to keep testing.

I think we may need something else to trigger a CASH scoring event?


(The 18-Card 1-2 player game is set in stone for the contest. These changes I'm trying are for the 3+ player game anyways.)
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Charles Ward
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Re: [WIP] FRESH Big Time - 1980's Wall Street - 18 Card Contest Entry
TimST1E wrote:
FRESH Big Time has been selected as a Finalist in the 18 Card MicroGame Contest! I'm super excited to see how it fairs.


Congrats! Looking forward to see how it goes.
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Tim Davidson
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Re: [WIP] FRESH Big Time - 1980's Wall Street - 18 Card Contest Entry
ex1st wrote:
Congrats! Looking forward to see how it goes.
Thanks Charles!


With the new CASH card, you only want to play it when you would score more than others. This mostly seems to work, given you can choose which stocks cash, but sometimes the value cards can add up because nobody has an incentive to CASH it currently. So I'm trying to cms up with another easy way to keep it cashing. Maybe simply more CASH cards.
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Douglas Rees
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Re: [WIP] FRESH Big Time - 1980's Wall Street - 18 Card Contest Entry
Congrats on making it into the finals


Finally printed it out and had a few solo rounds, I screwed up my first one (somehow bought 5 shares and then remembered the limit of 3). My next two both scored around 28, and a final one of 34.

It's pretty fun, a workmate mentioned that he liked the look, so I'll try and give the multiplayer a go soon


Looking forward to seeing the new version too
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Tim Davidson
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Re: [WIP] FRESH Big Time - 1980's Wall Street - 18 Card Contest Entry
vialick wrote:
Congrats on making it into the finals
Thanks Doug!

vialick wrote:
Finally printed it out and had a few solo rounds, I screwed up my first one (somehow bought 5 shares and then remembered the limit of 3). My next two both scored around 28, and a final one of 34.

It's pretty fun, a workmate mentioned that he liked the look, so I'll try and give the multiplayer a go soon

Looking forward to seeing the new version too
Those are good 1 player scores. Try with more players for sure.

Verification is hard, but a lot of people have suggested that it looks like. A product they'd buy. And even the big version isn't going to be bigger than a playing card deck. So it may be publishable.
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Douglas Rees
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Re: [WIP] FRESH Big Time - 1980's Wall Street - 18 Card Contest Entry
Played a 4 round game with a colleague, we both enjoyed it

I think more players will definitely be better (looking forward to the new version). Personally I think I preferred solo to 2-player, but I get the feeling 3 or more would be totally radical.
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Tim Davidson
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Re: [WIP] FRESH Big Time - 1980's Wall Street - 18 Card Contest Entry
A new version of the game is up!

The game is now 36 cards (with 2 rules cards). The primary change is how the CASH points scoring works. Scoring only happens when a CASH card is played. This keeps the game going until somebody makes it to 50 points.

I've updated the first post with the new links, plus I'm putting stuff on FreshBigTime.com.

I'll do a bigger update with more images and details soon.
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Tim Davidson
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I've got a new website design over at FreshBigTime.com with current rules and couple new rules ideas I'm testing.

I'm also asking for open playtesting from anybody!
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Charles Ward
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TimST1E wrote:
I've got a new website design over at FreshBigTime.com with current rules and couple new rules ideas I'm testing.

I'm also asking for open playtesting from anybody!


Stepping up the game! Love the "totally tubular"
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Janine Viglietti
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Is it true that the game can no longer be played solitaire?
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Tim Davidson
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thevig wrote:
Is it true that the game can no longer be played solitaire?
the original solitaire rules (after playing a modifier under one stock card, automatically play the next card in the deck under the other stock card) should still basically work. The CASH cards would have to be considered, perhaps if flipped that way would always cash. After perfecting the regular multi-player game It would be cool to pin down some alternative solo rules.

But I think it always was primarily a multi-player game. It's mostly about being a cutthroat 80's Wall Street guy or gal manipulating opponent's stock prices.
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Garry Hoddinott
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Tim, I'm sure you tried it with another duel stock in play - a 5th and sixth company. How did it play? I have enjoyed my 3 plays of the earlier version but felt like it was a little hard to differentiate players. I only comment as I feel this game has definite potential and wonder if others have similar thoughts.
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Tim Davidson
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GarryHoddinott wrote:
Tim, I'm sure you tried it with another duel stock in play - a 5th and sixth company. How did it play? I have enjoyed my 3 plays of the earlier version but felt like it was a little hard to differentiate players. I only comment as I feel this game has definite potential and wonder if others have similar thoughts.
Off the hook, thanks for the positive feedback Garry!

Yes, a fifth and sixth stock on another stock card is cool idea. I have toyed with it, it makes for more diverse and less interconnected portfolios and a very different balance. The deck dynamic changes quite a bit. Right now the game seems balanced with 4 stocks.

I would love it to be like an optional expansion. It would require more players, at least 3 or 4. And the CASHing mechanic would have to get more complicated/frequent. I expect the expansion would also include different types of cards that create more interaction and mixing up of the stocks. Right now it's like a stretch goal.

I have been trying to word the card's text to allow for the possibility though.
 
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Tim Davidson
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Months ago the guys at Print n Play Podcast did an awesome review of the game! I just learnt about it last week (my fault for not diligently running my social medias)...

http://www.printnplaycast.com/2016/02/19/pnpcast-010/

They reviewed the smaller 18 card contest version with 2 players.
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Charles Ward
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On the print play queue!
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