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Subject: It has been 10 years... rss

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Mike Sten
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... time for a fourth edition?

... what would you want to see?
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Jason Bush
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I'd like to see no 4th ed.
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Skolo
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To3 is perfect as it is. 4th would be half of the components for the same price

It would be nice to have some hardcover rulebook or something
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Arthur Peterson
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I'd like to see a storage box for the base + all expansions...instead of a 4th edition.
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Scott Randolph
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No, emphatically "No!"...no "TI4!" I would like another expansion with 2-3 more Great Races, maybe 1 more ship type (like a missile frigate), maybe some different objectives, but no "TI4."

That's my "2 cents."
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Shane Hubenig
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The tread in new additions is to dumb games down.


I would like to see new objectives and perhaps new Strategy cards.
 
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Joshua Simone [The Quasi Geek Dad]
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I would just like an updated reprinting. An updated rule book that includes a most recent FAQ and a better tech tree layout. Also I would love to see some books about the TI:3 universe.
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John
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Although TI:3 is a piece of art to behold I expect(ed) FFG may release something similar rebranded in the Starwars universe since they have obtained the licence. I am not eager to see a more streamlined but "dumbed down" TI:4 with less content in a smaller box though.
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Atilla Kármán
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DeadMoney wrote:
I would just like an updated reprinting. An updated rule book that includes a most recent FAQ and a better tech tree layout. Also I would love to see some books about the TI:3 universe.


what he said! I'd like to see some novels in the TI universes, since the background story is so rich.
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Scott Lewis
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Anyone want to form a pool as to how many times this topic will be brought up again in the next few months? I think this is the 3rd or 4th "Fourth Edition" thread in recent times
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Fedor Syagin
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sigmazero13 wrote:
Anyone want to form a pool as to how many times this topic will be brought up again in the next few months? I think this is the 3rd or 4th "Fourth Edition" thread in recent times

It will never stop.
I am not sure if I want 4th edition, but I do want some attention to this product. Pretty much everything was at least in some way revised. We have many second editions that usually fix some problems without ruining old games. TI3 haven't got any expansions for a while and there is no updated components with FAQ way out of date at this point
So yes. Revised edition or some new expansions would be nice indication that TI3 universe is not forgotten. All we get right now is auto reprints. No anniversary edition either. (And we seen plenty of those.)

Until one of those happens we will see people asking this question again and again.
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Fedor Syagin
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colmmccarthy wrote:
mike_sten wrote:
... time for a fourth edition?

... what would you want to see?


An end to these TI4 threads



Revised rulebook and possibly completely revised rules for certain things.
Like the whole mechanized units and domain counters. Even if end result is the same it seems like it needs to be rewritten in rulebook.
There is a reason why there is such a huge section in FAQ and questions in forums surface from time to time.

Possibly revise leaders (they are seems to work but require constant reference what to do with them if you lose battle depending on situation.)
And a bit hard to notice on board , so i seen people forget that they had diplomat buried under all the ground forces and space docs.



Possibly revised the way action cards work or just text of them to avoid the "can you do this faster than this" because nobody actually seems to play them as it written in rules (announce first, wait for other to announce etc.)

Addition and streamlining of most popular homerules - like Red Tape with Bureaucracy


If revised edition include all expansion - then update technology tree.

Tiny additions like marking cards that needs to be removed if game has less than certain number of players so they are easier to take out.

I am sure some people will mention other tiny things that would be nice to have as part of one product.

Is game broken and need fixing - of course not, but if game of thrones deserved Second Editon that actually pretty much revised edtion, having revised 3rd edition would be cool IMHO.

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Martin Larouche
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TI3 is FAR from being perfect.

The tech tree being about 50% pointless as games are over before you can reach those high-tiers ones.

Action cards completely destroying the initiative->imperial order, which can singlehandly deny a player victory due to a random luck of the draw.

The first player to choose imperial at the start of the game having a big advantage over the other players.

Leaders needing a reference sheet at best, a complete rewrite to make them easier to remember their abilities and what happens when you capture/execute them.

Distant suns options being just, not very good and requires knowledge of rulesets that almost never occurs as i've found no one wants to bother with these (razing counters, having sanctions for doing so, etc.).

There are tons more of other minor issues with it on top of those bigger ones.

I'd say bring on TI4... and i DO want it streamlined, because i do know that streamlined does NOT equal dumbed down. Those are two separate things.
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Scott Lewis
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garfielder wrote:
sigmazero13 wrote:
Anyone want to form a pool as to how many times this topic will be brought up again in the next few months? I think this is the 3rd or 4th "Fourth Edition" thread in recent times

It will never stop.
I am not sure if I want 4th edition, but I do want some attention to this product. Pretty much everything was at least in some way revised. We have many second editions that usually fix some problems without ruining old games. TI3 haven't got any expansions for a while and there is no updated components with FAQ way out of date at this point
So yes. Revised edition or some new expansions would be nice indication that TI3 universe is not forgotten. All we get right now is auto reprints. No anniversary edition either. (And we seen plenty of those.)

Until one of those happens we will see people asking this question again and again.

And yet, the conversations every time are the same, nothing new, nothing different, just the same reasons for and against over and over.

While I agree that TI3 is not perfect, I seriously doubt a TI4 would make it a better game - it would more likely just make it a DIFFERENT game, just like TI2 -> TI3 did. Whether it's "better" is going to be subjective. With Descent, many feel the transition to 2E was a big step down, that the "streamlining" ruined the game. Whether that's true is, of course, up to the individual to decide, but streamlining doesn't always make a game better - sometimes it's change for the sake of change.
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Scott M.
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No TI4... no.
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Scott Randolph
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sigmazero13 wrote:
Anyone want to form a pool as to how many times this topic will be brought up again in the next few months? I think this is the 3rd or 4th "Fourth Edition" thread in recent times


Sigma, I'm "IN the pool" for $1.00, I bet "at least one more thread on this very same topic!"

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Scott Randolph
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sigmazero13 wrote:
garfielder wrote:
sigmazero13 wrote:
Anyone want to form a pool as to how many times this topic will be brought up again in the next few months? I think this is the 3rd or 4th "Fourth Edition" thread in recent times

It will never stop.
I am not sure if I want 4th edition, but I do want some attention to this product. Pretty much everything was at least in some way revised. We have many second editions that usually fix some problems without ruining old games. TI3 haven't got any expansions for a while and there is no updated components with FAQ way out of date at this point
So yes. Revised edition or some new expansions would be nice indication that TI3 universe is not forgotten. All we get right now is auto reprints. No anniversary edition either. (And we seen plenty of those.)

Until one of those happens we will see people asking this question again and again.

And yet, the conversations every time are the same, nothing new, nothing different, just the same reasons for and against over and over.

While I agree that TI3 is not perfect, I seriously doubt a TI4 would make it a better game - it would more likely just make it a DIFFERENT game, just like TI2 -> TI3 did. Whether it's "better" is going to be subjective. With Descent, many feel the transition to 2E was a big step down, that the "streamlining" ruined the game. Whether that's true is, of course, up to the individual to decide, but streamlining doesn't always make a game better - sometimes it's change for the sake of change.


Our group is about to play its 53rd game of TI3 with a full-house of [8] players, that to me is testimony to what a darn fine game it is. Does it need some tweaks?...yes...is it perfect?...no...but it's still an amazing game.

I'm just highly skeptical that a TI4 would be a better game, I do not believe that it would be.
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Martin Larouche
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atraangelis wrote:
No TI4... no.


Why?

TI3 isn't going to vanish when TI4 comes out...
Why prevent people from enjoying a streamlined version of it when you can still play your old one?

Descent 1 didn't disappear when Descent 2 came out... Many still play it over the newer edition.

I want a TI4... yet according to others i shouldn't because they prefer TI3 over TI4? (And that is without even knowing what TI4 would look or play like.) I just can't understand this...They don't want other people enjoying a new version of a game because they believe on blind faith that the old game is going to be automatically better than the newer one?

Since this is the 10th anniversary of the game, i can't help but remember the discussions that were made here 10 years ago. Many went like this:
"TI3 is a streamlined, dumbed-down, version of TI2".
"TI2 is a much better game than TI3".
... the cycle just goes on and on.

Look at the threads made around the times those games were announced and you'll see the same exact pattern of people saying the newer games are going to be worse without them having even played or seen those games:
- Runebound 3,
- Descent 2,
- Battlelore 2,
- Twilight Imperium 3,
- ...

How about instead of saying "no to TI4" at this ridiculously early stage since the game might not even be a concept in anyone's head right now, just say: "let them come out with the concept, then i'll see if i am interested in it?"
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trevor

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Yeah people are weird, just because there is a new edition doesn't mean you can't play or have to burn your old edition..........

You can also NOT buy something just because it's released.


Strange, strange sentiments here..........
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Jonathan Challis
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No, but it would fracture the playerbase, and mean no more expansions for TI3, they would be for TI4.

Thus it is perfectly valid for many of us to actively not want to ever see TI4...
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deedob wrote:
atraangelis wrote:
No TI4... no.


Why?

TI3 isn't going to vanish when TI4 comes out...
Why prevent people from enjoying a streamlined version of it when you can still play your old one?


Still have never seen anyone play TI2 and have been playing since TI3 came out.

I have heard there are those who play it just have never seen it actually being played.

Newer versions always seem to phase out the older ones as the cult of the new seems to permeate many gamers.
I personally still have my older Tide of Iron and Descent 1st edition but it is getting harder to find players for them.
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Paul Schulzetenberg
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Kelanen wrote:
No, but it would fracture the playerbase, and mean no more expansions for TI3, they would be for TI4.


It's funny you say this, because the fragmentation of the playerbase around TI3 is exactly why I wish they would release a new edition. There are so many options at this point that it's virtually impossible to find two people who like the same set of rules. The community is very divided on which strategy cards to use, and whether or not to use optional stuff like Mercenaries, Promissory Notes, Mechanized Infantry, Leaders, and Distant Suns.

Definitely one of the strengths of TI3 is that all of the optional rules mean that you can tweak it to be exactly what you want it to be, but it also means that I feel like I'm talking about a different game when I talk to some people. Trying to unify two groups to play a session of TI3 can be a headache. A new edition would be nice to hit the reset button and give us all a new common ground to start from.

That said, I do love TI3 as is, and TI4 wouldn't need to change much. I don't think any of the fans want the differences between a hypothetical TI4 and TI3 to be as wide-sweeping as the differences between TI3 and TI2.
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Scott Randolph
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Kelanen wrote:
No, but it would fracture the playerbase, and mean no more expansions for TI3, they would be for TI4.

Thus it is perfectly valid for many of us to actively not want to ever see TI4...


Thank you Mr Challis, I hereby dub thee "The Voice of Reason."
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Martin Larouche
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Unitoch wrote:
Kelanen wrote:
No, but it would fracture the playerbase, and mean no more expansions for TI3, they would be for TI4.


It's funny you say this, because the fragmentation of the playerbase around TI3 is exactly why I wish they would release a new edition. There are so many options at this point that it's virtually impossible to find two people who like the same set of rules. The community is very divided on which strategy cards to use, and whether or not to use optional stuff like Mercenaries, Promissory Notes, Mechanized Infantry, Leaders, and Distant Suns.

Definitely one of the strengths of TI3 is that all of the optional rules mean that you can tweak it to be exactly what you want it to be, but it also means that I feel like I'm talking about a different game when I talk to some people. Trying to unify two groups to play a session of TI3 can be a headache. A new edition would be nice to hit the reset button and give us all a new common ground to start from.

That said, I do love TI3 as is, and TI4 wouldn't need to change much. I don't think any of the fans want the differences between a hypothetical TI4 and TI3 to be as wide-sweeping as the differences between TI3 and TI2.


Agreed on most points.

Just streamline (not dumb-down) the tech-tree, make a unified set of strategy cards that isn't as bad as the original one, phase out the weaker options (mines, distant suns...) and replace them with new, better ones (or better implementations of them) and fix some abilities that were prone to rule-confusion...
And almost everyone would prefer the newer version and switch without looking back.
 
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Martin Larouche
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SFRR wrote:
Kelanen wrote:
No, but it would fracture the playerbase, and mean no more expansions for TI3, they would be for TI4.

Thus it is perfectly valid for many of us to actively not want to ever see TI4...


Thank you Mr Challis, I hereby dub thee "The Voice of Reason."


1: who at this point in time, thinks there's ever going to be another expansion for TI3? The game's already bloated as it is...

2: Twilight imperium 2 player base was fractured when ti3 came out... should ti3 never have been made?
 
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