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Subject: I Want to Believe [Star Wars] rss

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Rob
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A compelling argument that Jar Jar Binks and Palpatine were actually co-conspirators:

https://np.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/3qvj6w/theory_jar_...

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Rob
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A nugget from the comments about when Jar Jar told Anakin that Padme was "pretty hot."

In TPM, when they initially land on Coruscant, Jar Jar and Anakin leave the landing pad in a little air speeder with the Queen and her handmaidens. When they sit down in the car, Jar Jar comments on how nice the Queen is being to them. Then he pointedly comments, "Pitty hot!"
To me there's no question that he's literally saying that the queen is "hot," as in attractive. He's not commenting on the weather or anything. It's a completely nonsensical and inappropriate thing to say to a little kid, and is totally weird in the movie....unless you realize what is actually happening (that Jar Jar is a bad guy manipulating an impressionable Annie). Also note that in Attack of the Clones, when they first meet up again, Anakin is forlorn and tells Jar Jar, "She (Padme) has forgotten me completely." Jar Jar is very quick to buoy his hopes, though, telling Anakin, "No, no she's happy to see you, happier than I've ever seen her!" See, Jar Jar has a vested interest in Anakin's continued lust for Padme. Because he and Palpatine have already formulated that as the easiest way to undermine Anakin's loyalty to the Jedi. There's no telling how much Jar Jar has been deviously encouraging Anakin's infatuation in the formative years between TPM and AotC. And we must assume that he has been-- why else would Anakin immediately start talking to Jar Jar about how the queen has forgotten him? It's because Jar Jar has become his confidant/wing man in the matter. I wouldn't doubt that it was Jar Jar, also, who eventually plants the Padme-death-by-childbirth nightmares in Anakin's dreams. Master of mind control, after all.
 
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Chris Flux
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One of the bits of 'evidence' that Jar Jar is a jedi is he falls off a bridge.......whistle

After reading it I had to take a breath and understand that we 5 minutes of life I would not be getting back
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Thank you for sharing. I enjoyed reading it. The article does allow for a unique look at the trilogy proceeding Lucas' original presentation.


1932 11012015
I have seen a Covergirl commercial that is advertising make up for fans of both the "Dark Side" and the "Light Side." Star Wars themed make up.
I could lament and bemoan such an idea, but I suppose there is money to be made.
 
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Exit 191
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I love it! Very Keyser Söze and Jackie Chan mix, in that is makes incredible sense. To think that George Lucas was dumb enough to have a ridiculous character that made no sense is very short sighted. I think it takes a few years away from the "noise" around Jar-Jar to see this (possible) truth. I so want to watch the prequels again.
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Benj Davis
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If that's the big reveal of Episode 7, I'll be ...
Well, impressed isn't the right word.
I'll go with "surprised".
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Matt Brown
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Jlerpy wrote:
If that's the big reveal of Episode 7, I'll be ...
Well, impressed isn't the right word.
I'll go with "surprised".


It involves Luke.
 
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Jeff
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matthean wrote:
Jlerpy wrote:
If that's the big reveal of Episode 7, I'll be ...
Well, impressed isn't the right word.
I'll go with "surprised".


It involves Luke.


Hint: we've never seen Luke and Jar Jar in the same place at the same time...


(yes, yes, I know - but maybe Jar Jar is also an evil time lord...)
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Rob
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Test
http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2015/11/02/darth_jar_jar...

 
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Josh Jennings
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A group of friends are planning to watch both trilogies in one sitting before hte new movie comes out. They were planning on skipping The Phantom Menace because the host can't stand that film. In light of this new theory I think that I'll try to convince them to watch all three prequel movies very carefully.
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Rob
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Test
Here's the best order to watch them in: 4, 5, 1, 2, 3, 6.
 
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Benj Davis
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Sinister Dexter wrote:
Here's the best order to watch them in: 4, 5, 1, 2, 3, 6.


I like the sound of the "Machete Order": 4, 5, 2, 3, 6.
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Will

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That is an interesting thread title. If I knew how to do image editing, there would be a picture of the Millenium Falcon instead of the flying saucer in this poster.

 
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jeRm! wrote:
I love it! Very Keyser Söze and Jackie Chan mix, in that is makes incredible sense. To think that George Lucas was dumb enough to have a ridiculous character that made no sense is very short sighted. I think it takes a few years away from the "noise" around Jar-Jar to see this (possible) truth. I so want to watch the prequels again.

I'm sorry, but if this was the actual plan, George Lucas would not be able to resist telling the audience at some point in the prequels. He spells everything out in them with terrible exposition, so an opportunity to reveal Jar-Jar as a villain would be irresistible for him. Besides he even has Yoda say "Always 2 there are, no more no less." So a 3rd Sith would be running against the rules he established.

I don't care if someone else wants to waste their time analyzing the prequels and making excuses for the awfulness, but if J.J. Abrams and the writers put in any references at all to the prequels I will be shocked and disappointed. The last thing they want to do is remind audiences of the movies they hated while at the new one. I expect this film to be a love letter to the original trilogy and to distance itself from the prequels in every way, that's why they've been so open in the press about going back to practical effects and bringing back the cast you loved. It's like J.J. Abrams is shouting from the rooftops "Don't worry! We won't make another crappy movie like those prequels."
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Ben Lott
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Sinister Dexter wrote:
Here's the best order to watch them in: 4, 5, 1, 2, 3, 6.


False. Here's the best order to watch them in: 4, 5, 6.
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Josh Jennings
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Blott wrote:

I'm sorry, but if this was the actual plan, George Lucas would not be able to resist telling the audience at some point in the prequels. He spells everything out in them with terrible exposition, so an opportunity to reveal Jar-Jar as a villain would be irresistible for him.


The premise of the post is that it was George Lucas's original plan but that he chickened out after all of the backlash against Jar Jar's character. I don't necessarily agree with the theory but it is interesting.

Blott wrote:
Besides he even has Yoda say "Always 2 there are, no more no less." So a 3rd Sith would be running against the rules he established.


If that's the case, then why were there three Sith? Palpatine, Darth Maul, and Count Dooku were all Sith. If the Rule of Two is really true, then shouldn't there be one more? The theory is that Dooku was made the villain after Jar Jar was redacted. That's why the character of Dooku is so flat. He was literally pasted into the spot that Jar Jar was supposed to fill.
 
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Eric Etkin
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thermogimp wrote:
Blott wrote:

I'm sorry, but if this was the actual plan, George Lucas would not be able to resist telling the audience at some point in the prequels. He spells everything out in them with terrible exposition, so an opportunity to reveal Jar-Jar as a villain would be irresistible for him.


The premise of the post is that it was George Lucas's original plan but that he chickened out after all of the backlash against Jar Jar's character. I don't necessarily agree with the theory but it is interesting.

Blott wrote:
Besides he even has Yoda say "Always 2 there are, no more no less." So a 3rd Sith would be running against the rules he established.


If that's the case, then why were there three Sith? Palpatine, Darth Maul, and Count Dooku were all Sith. If the Rule of Two is really true, then shouldn't there be one more? The theory is that Dooku was made the villain after Jar Jar was redacted. That's why the character of Dooku is so flat. He was literally pasted into the spot that Jar Jar was supposed to fill.


Well... Episode 2 takes place about 10 years after 1. We have no reason to believe Dooku was an active Sith while Maul was still alive (clone wars cartoon not withstanding) based solely on the script of episode 1.

Interestingly, though the "rule of 2" is stupid and dramatically constraining, we never explicitly learn the scope of it. What's stopping anyone from interpreting it from simply that there's multiple sith, but a sith lord can never have more than one apprentice... hence, there's "always two."

Anyhow... it seems strange to me that someone as advanced in age as Dooku was wasn't an active Sith during episode 1, but whatever. Lucas would have us believe that the entire galaxy more or less had collective amnesia about Jedi between the 20 years of episodes 3 and 4...

I think the idea of JarJar being a Palpatine cohort is compelling, but completely revisionist. Lucas has shown almost zero ability to illustrate that level of subtlety, and he certainly would have stuck to his guns and kept JarJar front and center in episodes 2 and 3 if that was actually the case. At the very least, we would have gotten some sort of coda scene in episode 3 to illustrate the relationship.

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Josh Jennings
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MOTHDevil wrote:

I think the idea of JarJar being a Palpatine cohort is compelling, but completely revisionist. Lucas has shown almost zero ability to illustrate that level of subtlety, and he certainly would have stuck to his guns and kept JarJar front and center in episodes 2 and 3 if that was actually the case. At the very least, we would have gotten some sort of coda scene in episode 3 to illustrate the relationship.


This is where I'm at with the theory too. Well put!
 
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There were racial accusations related to Jar Jar. I think that would be enough for Lucas to change his plans.

Here's what convinced me that Darth Jar Jar was Lucas' original plan:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magician_Bink
Bink's power prevents anyone from acting against his interests through magical means. This includes protecting him from magical harm of any kind. His power cleverly conceals itself by acting through coincidence and also keeps Bink's loved ones from harm. There are only a few people (very clever people) who have ascertained the nature of his talent. "Bink's talent is the most wonderful and devious talent in Xanth".

Recall that Vader means Father. Star Wars names often indicate something about the character.
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Man, look at that devious mastermind (who can't feel his tongue)

 
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Re: Rule of Two

Of course I am not completely up with what is or isn't canon these days, but my interpretation would fall along the lines of Count Dooku being less of a Sith Apprentice, and more of a Fallen Jedi or Sith Master.

Of course, you could go with the whole "The greatest trick the devil ever played was to convince the world that he didn't exist" mentality - Sith have no such rule of two, but perpetuated the lie to fool the Jedi into complacency - "Ok guys, we got the two bad guys, time to go home, couldn't possibly be any more of them"
 
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solidhavok wrote:
Re: Rule of Two

Of course I am not completely up with what is or isn't canon these days, but my interpretation would fall along the lines of Count Dooku being less of a Sith Apprentice, and more of a Fallen Jedi or Sith Master.


Except Dooku had an Official Silly Sith Name: Darth Tyranus. In context of the movies, he was definitely the sith apprentice.

Oddly, I don't recall "Darth Tyranus" being mentioned in the movie, but it's all over the offcial materials.

(as a side note... "Vader" may mean "father" in some language(s), but in context, it's simply a bastardized form of "invader." Look at the other Darth names - Maul, (in)Sideous, Tyranus (tyranny), Plagis (plague). These are all less-than-subtle wordplays coming from a scripter who uses pronouns like "Jabba the Hut" [which was originally one T, not two...], "Death Star," and "Rancor.") It's a peculiar hodgepodge of inspired and lame.

solidhavok wrote:
Of course, you could go with the whole "The greatest trick the devil ever played was to convince the world that he didn't exist" mentality - Sith have no such rule of two, but perpetuated the lie to fool the Jedi into complacency - "Ok guys, we got the two bad guys, time to go home, couldn't possibly be any more of them"


To me, this is a much more believable, and a much easier retcon to pull off/justify than Darth Binks. There's really nothing in the movies that suggests/contradicts otherwise... Whereas Jarjar is so ridiculously over the top, it strains any sort of credibility to think Lucas intended him to be anything other than comedic relief.
 
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MOTHDevil wrote:
Whereas Jarjar is so ridiculously over the top, it strains any sort of credibility to think Lucas intended him to be anything other than comedic relief.

Exactly. People site this Darth Binks theory as though it somehow justifies George Lucas and his decision to include him in the film. However, if his intention was for JarJar to be an undercover villain then his writing and direction is even worse because he made the character too farcical and moronic to ever be taken seriously as a villainous presence.
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Will

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Blott wrote:
MOTHDevil wrote:
Whereas Jarjar is so ridiculously over the top, it strains any sort of credibility to think Lucas intended him to be anything other than comedic relief.

Exactly. People site this Darth Binks theory as though it somehow justifies George Lucas and his decision to include him in the film. However, if his intention was for JarJar to be an undercover villain then his writing and direction is even worse because he made the character too farcical and moronic to ever be taken seriously as a villainous presence.

Kind of the point, I think.
 
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