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Subject: Game components hailed as amazing. I find them to be lacking quality control. rss

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While reading reviews and comments before ordering this game, everyone said that the game components are top notch quality, explaining the extreme price. Some of the game components are amazing, like the showdown board and the detail of the miniatures. But the miniatures themselves can be victims of loose tolerances when trying to put them together. I just put the lion together and the face would not even fit flush with the head when I added the jaw (made a thread about this yesterday). The hind legs have a wide gap between them. If I put the legs together first then they would not line up with the main body in front of them.


The card stock is nice, but nothing that is any better than my FFG games or AEG's nightfall. In fact, I believe my FFG cards are higher quality than the KDM cards. Some of the cards even came slightly damaged. There was as stack of cards on top of one of the packs that look almost like a small bend on one edge.



This affected maybe the top 15-20 cards but I don't remember where the other ones went. I just remember that it was the top of the secret fighting arts cards because they were all affected.

My next issue is another quality control issue. I think the pictures explain it better than I ever could:



Now I can't even fix it by just unfolding it since that folded edge was not cut. I would have to cut it myself to fix it before unfolding it. The prospect of taking anything sharp near a 200+ page book from a $400 game is scary to say the least. And it's not just the first page that's affected. There is a slight crease line on the following pages which you can kind of tell by the shadows in the following pic:



And this goes out to around page 50 or 60, getting less and less severe with each passing page. The rest of the book is pretty good, but it definitely should have been wrapped in plastic as the edges and corners were not pristine due to be handled during shipping.

Next is the vac tray. It was bent in a couple places and the area for the settlement cards protrudes a bit making it so I have to press down on the settlement cards because they will not just fall into the space.





How does this even happen? It shouldn't have been during shipping since the box arrived in pretty good condition. This likely made it out of the factory this way. Another lack of quality control.

Another issue is the packaging of the minis. All the sprues were just thrown in a single bag to be jumbled around and allowed to hit eachother. To no surprise I found 3 sprues where a piece was missing. I was able to find 2 of the pieces in the bag but the 3rd, one of the male survivor prologue torsos, is just gone, likely fallen out at the factory too. Another miss for quality control.

Now this is just a list of issues I've personally experienced with my box. I've heard of other issues too, like damaged boxes, and mold (yikes!). How people can say that this game is worth it, component wise, is beyond me. I've gotten far more for far less of equal quality in most of my other games.

The 2 components of this game that stand far and above the rest is the rule book, and the detail of the miniatures. Shame that the quality control lets such imperfect specimens out of the factory.

While these are the most detailed miniatures I have seen in a game thus far, I have heard really good things about the Blood Rage minis and The Others: 7 Sins, which I have backed, will be made by the same company so I will finally get to compare to my KDM minis next year. If the detail is as nice as the KDM ones then KDM will only be left with the amazing rule book as the only component that is better than everyone elses offerings.

Now the gameplay itself is incredible. I haven't played anything like it. But it really is a shame when such a great game is marred by poor quality control. When I pay a premium price for a premium game I expect premium components too. When the beautiful miniatures are ruined by poor fitment and I have to file down part of the jaw just to make the face fit, messing up the face/jaw intersection, it makes me wonder why this game is so expensive.

Most board games are $50-100. This one has double the contents of most board games but costs 4-8x as much. For that difference I would expect perfect quality control and be happy with excellent. What I see here is mediocre to bad quality control, met or exceeded by pretty much every other game I own. Never have I seen this many defects in a single box.

I'm not trying to get every damaged thing replaced. The only thing I want replaced is the 1 missing survivor part. I'm just disappointed that so many things were damaged when the price is this high. I guess this speaks to the nature of boutique goods? Beautiful but flawed. I can buy mainstream goods all day and most of the time they arrive flawless. Some have flaws, but never this many.
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Sebastian
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just spend 250€ (inc shipping) on this game.... i´m a little concerned now
 
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Hellena Handbasket
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Most of the folks going bonkers over the minis are seasoned minis gamers, so things like minor gaps that need to be filled with putty/gray stuff/etc. and having to file down the face on the lion a bit to make it fit are kind of glossed over. Ask around to see what sort of filler people are using for their minis if the gaps bother you. You should be able to do a reasonable job of covering up the minor issues you've taken pictures of up there.

That said: Yeah, quality control was definitely an issue for the initial release. I don't recall any Kickstarter I've backed to any reasonable extent not having quality control issues, but it's never fun to spend a lot of money on something and then discover it's not in the condition you were hoping for. The bent pages/cards you mentioned are something I haven't seen many complaints of before. That really stinks and thank you for letting folks know that could be a problem. Try contacting Kingdom Death and letting them know you have some missing and faulty components, and provide pictures like you've done here. I did that about a missing item in my wave 1 and got the missing element sent out in a couple of weeks (in the US here).

The vac tray's a known issue. Anyone purchasing the game now should definitely keep in mind that the Vac tray's made of brittle material and there's a chance it will arrive broken in transit. I'm pretty sure most of the reviews up right now have specifically mentioned that and the hunt track as weak points in the production.

Others and Blood Rage look pretty sweet from a minis quality perspective. Neither's out yet, though. It will be interesting to see if they have similar issues once they're in the wild.

Edit: Ah! And I forgot to talk about the cards. Trust me, the flat finish on the cards is throwing you off on judging their quality. I've played for probably 60 or more hours of solid game time, now, shuffling cards all over the place and not being overly careful, and my unsleeved cards are demonstrating only very minimal wear. As an example, see my (heavily shuffled and reshuffled) disorders deck after that ~60 hours of play time:



There's some minor scratching and a bit of uniform whiting out on the edges, but nothing close to what I would have expected from even high quality cards. They've significantly outperformed my expectations.
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Han Solo
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cador2 wrote:
just spend 250€ (inc shipping) on this game.... i´m a little concerned now

You shouldn't be, the OP is being a... Well I'd get banned if I finished that...
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Han Solo
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cador2 wrote:
just spend 250€ (inc shipping) on this game.... i´m a little concerned now

He doesn't even know what flash is, then complains about the quality of the minis... Obviously doesn't know what he's doing, but blames the minis for not going together correctly shake
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Joel Carr
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the book is a serious issue though, and damaged cards... I had a similar experience(but worse) with Battle of five armies cards... but ARES was nice enough to replace them... the book though.. I ahev had it happen with fiction books I have picked up. it is very annoying...
 
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Nevertellmetheodds wrote:
cador2 wrote:
just spend 250€ (inc shipping) on this game.... i´m a little concerned now

He doesn't even know what flash is, then complains about the quality of the minis... Obviously doesn't know what he's doing, but blames the minis for not going together correctly shake


Oh wow, that's... not cool dude.

The person has a legitimate complaint, so using something that has NOTHING to do with his complaints to then proceed to attempt to insult him is pretty low.

He's got a point. A lot of pretty good points. So let's keep the personal insults to a minimum.
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Nevertellmetheodds wrote:
cador2 wrote:
just spend 250€ (inc shipping) on this game.... i´m a little concerned now

He doesn't even know what flash is, then complains about the quality of the minis... Obviously doesn't know what he's doing, but blames the minis for not going together correctly shake


That is a cheap shot. Shame on you.
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ELicious wrote:


Most board games are $50-100. This one has double the contents of most board games but costs 4-8x as much. For that difference I would expect perfect quality control and be happy with excellent. What I see here is mediocre to bad quality control, met or exceeded by pretty much every other game I own. Never have I seen this many defects in a single box.

Boom.
Twice the content. Five times the price. Three times the defects.

Anyone else feel like a d20 was rolled for each category when this game shipped?

The worst part about the problems you have is that you're probably screwed until next year at best. And I kind of hate that. Again. Give the cost you'd expect it all resolved super fast, but I feel like you'll be lucky if you get an email reply in a decent time frame, let alone any sort of replacements.
 
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Colcannon Mash
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Just a topical comment about fitting and tolerances. The only company that produces stuff with

1. Complex multi-part components
2. Narrow tolerances and minimal/no seams

Is Bandai (who produce Gundams), and they have been doing this injection plastic stuff for nearly 40 years. No one, and especially not a miniatures company comes close to producing that level of quality control.

The gaps are minor and part and parcel of assembling models. You can have them simple and gapless (i.e GW's two part plastics) or you can have them complex and run into issues like you have.

Admittedly Kingdom Death does have issues with making things unnecessarily complex, with parts breaks where they really shouldn't have needed any, but that's another problem altogether.
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Well obviously your game isn’t supposed to come like this.

It is unfortunate that your copy was damaged.

Email customer services and they will sort out replacements just as you would dealing with any faulty purchase. Whilst the game is boutique it is not hand made. Chances are your game wasn’t assembled by the designer himself and he never saw it before it made its way from China to your house.

It’s unlucky but it can be fixed.

Phoenix
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Dark63 wrote:

Twice the content. Five times the price. Three times the defects.

Anyone else feel like a d20 was rolled for each category when this game shipped?


Can you show me the huge "defects with the game" thread with a lot of people complaining about quality control issues? I looked and couldn't find one. There are bound to be issues with some games. I know there are people that got bad rulebooks with missing pages (which is a game killer for sure). However, I haven't seen an epidemic of defects being reported with KDM. I know my game didn't have any problems with it and I am sure this is the case with the vast majority of games out there.

Contact Adam and ask for a new rulebook. The lion is really a non-issue. As plastic cools from molding, you will have fitting issues from time to time. Ask anybody who works with models like these and you will find that this is normal. I shave plastic to get a better fit and the lion turned out fine. It still does not affect the quality of the product. The cards are a non-issue as they are not mechanically bent but are warped. They will return to shape.

I hate it when people try to start a conspiracy out of nothing. I am not directing this to the OP whatsoever. You have the right to air your complaints. Others trying to add fuel to the fire for the sake of badmouthing a good game.... well that's another story.

-Ski
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Dennis Ng
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My impression and experience from assembling the miniatures, is that the reason they have been separated and appear "unnecessarily" complex is multifold:

- To ensure the mould lines have minimal impact on the detail, i.e. they either follow natural lines across the particular piece or in ‘hidden’ areas where possible.
- Likewise where possible seams are selected in natural hidden areas.
- The models were originally sculpted for resin i.e. ideal medium where things like cut backs and thinner areas can be cast. Casting in plastic has limitations and thus plastic sculpts are typically sculpted for plastic medium. Without these numerous breaks, the dynamic poses cannot be achieved.

The form and detail of the sculpts were given precedence which is why miniature enthusiasts have such high praise for the product. However, I can understand that it may not be appropriate for a boardgame, as substantial modelling skills is required to realise the ‘ideal’ result. The only comparable boardgame I can think of is Hybrid (by Rackham), eve the GW ones (e.g. Space Hulk) don’t approach this.

Also, the above only applies to the non-armour kit models. The armour kits were obviously separated to little bits for customisability purposes like the GW kits.

My background: a seasoned wargamer across a wide range of systems for the last 20-25 years, who mainly enjoys the painting and presentation side of the hobby.

Also, Whilst the Bandai kits are seamless or at least has seams where you expect seams to be... I don't think they are comparable given the scale and the type of models. Just comparing against MG and PG kits I've put together BTW.

Sorry longer post than I expected...
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Colin Hall-Williams
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ZedFour wrote:
Just a topical comment about fitting and tolerances. The only company that produces stuff with

1. Complex multi-part components
2. Narrow tolerances and minimal/no seams

Is Bandai (who produce Gundams)


I swear they are goddamn wizards or something. I have never seen kits so accurate and so consistently clean and well-moulded, and that's before we get into the moving pieces pre-moulded on a single sprue!
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Brett Burleigh II
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My vac tray got banged up really badly... way worse than yours. Cracked and broken in a few places. I think at some point I'll use an expanding foam to shore it up in the void under it.

My cards were perfect, the minis prefect (only 1 or 2 pieces came loose during shipping, the survivor bonus had a small break on the Phoenix but it'll be unnoticeable street assembly). My box has some dishing, one corner got a bit noshed.

It sucks that you have these issues. What's worse is seeing rulebooks missing large sections, or repeated pages - usually there is a level of tolerances that a publisher bestows to a print run and asked for defects rates and the designer doesn't pay out of pocket for those to be fixed. Usually is setup with the contact.

Personally, I feel that the rulebook should have been backed with cardboard and sealed - mine took a little damage from shifting during shipping, but a sealed book wouldn't have had the same damages.

I'll say it, it could always be much worse!
While I agree about the pricing and expectations, it is a huge endeavor. Most copies of this game ate like rare unicorns that have been hunted at and rumored for years on-end... they've made a 10 - 15,000 mile journey and now they're in our homes. I still laugh maniacally after a sesh, in a stupor of disbelief that it is sitting in my hands. YMMV (obligatory)
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Whenever you manufacture anything in a production model (as opposed to hand making a single thing) there's going to be a percentage of damaged units. Ideally this percentage is very low, but it's never non-existent. Even in ordering SKUs for board games you'll place an order (say 10,000 units) and expect that what's delivered is +/- that number due to the over/under to try to compensate for these loses. I've bought games off the shelf from known companies that looked good on the outside and had missing or damaged pieces inside. It's a bummer if you happen to lose the lottery for one of these units. The real challenge/question is going to be how does the KD team respond to your problems and if you're happy on the other side. Best of luck resolving the issues.
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The tray issues and the lion gaps have been mentioned repeatedly even by the people most enamored with the component quality.

A few games slipping through with rule book page fold or slight bend to the cards are things that show up in pretty much any game print run from every company. So far this is the first report of either so not likely to be too wide spread.

Personally the only issues I've seen coming up that I think should have been preventable QC issue are the rule books missing large chunks, the tray being too low for the dividers, and I think they should have caught the issues with the lion.
 
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My copy was a bit worse for ware than the OPs. I made a help ticket and hope to get it resolved in the future. A game of this magnitude will have QC issues. As long as Poots addresses these issues, there really shouldnt be a problem.
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cador2 wrote:
just spend 250€ (inc shipping) on this game.... i´m a little concerned now


Don't. I think I'm in the silent majority that received the game without any missing or damaged pieces.
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Did OP use super glue or plastic cement? I found that where I had some minor seam gaps, in many cases they would go away once the cement melted a bit of the plastic on both sides and some firm pressure was applied to squeeze the two halves together.
 
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Firgus wrote:
cador2 wrote:
just spend 250€ (inc shipping) on this game.... i´m a little concerned now


Don't. I think I'm in the silent majority that received the game without any missing or damaged pieces.


Mine too! Even went through all the cards to make sure none were missing.
 
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Curt Warrington
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Ya same no issues the small gaps are just apart of model building and can be fixed with green stuff so that was to be expected. The book and tray sucks but I haven't heard much about the book being damaged from many people so it looks like you got a bad copy op
 
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Teamski wrote:
Dark63 wrote:

Twice the content. Five times the price. Three times the defects.

Anyone else feel like a d20 was rolled for each category when this game shipped?

The cards are a non-issue as they are not mechanically bent but are warped. They will return to shape.



Actually the cards are not warped, but not bent either. I can't really explain it but when I look at the card head on, as if I were reading the face of the card, I can see a small indent on the bottom edge. I have many warped cards, and you cannot tell they are warped when you look at the card head on, only when you turn it on it's side and see that it's not flat.
 
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Eric M
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Part of the production quality is the manufacturer. If you look at the other miniature lines they produce (like the Malifaux plastics) the KD:M are among their best results.
 
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Dan the Mysterious
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I'm happy with my copy. Sure you might have the occasional slip up with quality control but we certainly have not seen this reported as a general or even often problem.

 
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