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Subject: Downtime rss

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Ron Rhinehart
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My group and I got together last night on Tabletopia to do a demo of S&S - I've been slavering over the campaign for the past few days and this was one of those 'do I back it' type of sessions. Tabletopia worked quite well for us, but I have to say I was extremely disappointed with the game.

I love the aesthetics, the (minor) twist on the familiar theme, the leveling mechanics, and the combat system. The game seems to inspire tactical play and interesting decisions. However, it played unbearably slow. In the two and a half hours we played, I had around 8 turns, half of which were either moving three spaces and ending my turn, or heading back to the respawn area. All in all I got to roll 10 dice in 2.5 hours, and make hardly any interesting decisions. We didn't even get halfway through the intro scenario.

Was it us? Have others experienced this same thing (we played with 4, with one person sort of running the game as they had played it twice before)? I supposed it could be tabletopia slowing it down a little, but to be honest the system actually seemed pretty snappy and well executed.

Would love to hear from others on this, because I honestly went from 'must back' to 'probably wont even buy at retail'.
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Geoff ...
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Ronnyknox wrote:
In the two and a half hours we played, I had around 8 turns, half of which were either moving three spaces and ending my turn, or heading back to the respawn area.

What were you doing the rest of the time? If your turns were fast, it sounds like other players were slow in comparison, so perhaps you had a slow player? If your turns were not fast, it sounds like you had interesting decisions to make?

I haven't played myself.
 
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Skaak
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Ronnyknox wrote:
In the two and a half hours we played, I had around 8 turns, half of which were either moving three spaces and ending my turn, or heading back to the respawn area. All in all I got to roll 10 dice in 2.5 hours, and make hardly any interesting decisions. We didn't even get halfway through the intro scenario.


It sounds very much like you were doing something wrong. It should be very rare that you have a turn where you don't use Action, Movement, and Combat (and the most common to skip should be Movement, since that's less useful if you are engaged).

Additionally you should almost never need to move toward the spawn point. If you are dying that much, then you need to adjust your tactics to play a little more conservatively as a group. Coordinating your attacks will be key, and making sure you have someone in there to soak up damage for counter attacks.

Some things to remember:

- Your Action is always useful! On turns where you will only be moving, use your Action to Dash an additional area. On turns you are attacking, use your Action to add a free HIT to your attack (assuming you don't have a better use for your Action in combat).

- It's usually better to focus your attacks on the nastiest enemy than spread the damage around. Blue enemies can really ruin your day if you leave them alone to focus on their easier to kill brethren.

- Teleport to the spawn point if you die; it's almost never worth it to walk there.

Good luck! Without having seen you play it's hard to say what you might be doing that would make the game such a drag, but it sounds like either tactically or mechanically something isn't quite right.
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Paul Glickman
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I played it solo, and it was slow going because of Tabletopia. Everything takes at least 2-3 times longer when you can't just draw cards/etc (though the fact that the setup was done for us might be super relevant, let's ignore that for this discourse and pretend there's no such thing as setup time).

Playing solo one and two thirds time through, I found I did something with every action every turn other than before the first baddy spawned every game. Maybe 4 heroes isn't as ideal for the game, but I believe it's more likely that you had either a slow player, or more likely, a slow Tabletopia-er (or both) and that's what made it slow.

I definitely didn't find it low in action, at all, and note that later scenarios will probably be tougher and so more action packed as well.

Don't give up yet! Maybe try it solo and see how you find it?
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Simone Romano
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Hello,

I'm pretty slow using tabletop, but for a real game i can say a solo play with 2-3 heroes requires 30 to 60 minutes (based on experience with the game), a full party about 75 - 90 minutes but you need to master a bit the game, your first game may require more time.

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Dirk
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I also played quite a few hours on tabletopia, but for me, it clearly was mainly a problem of the ui and some time was lost because i was new to the rules. With tabletopia, i found manipulation of stacks of cards a bit clumsy.

Especially when i had to reshuffle a stack after drawing the last card, i had to put the cards from the discard exactly onto each other until the system accepted it as as stack and allowed me to reshuffle it.
If someone knows a trick how to make this easier, i would appreciate it.

I found the turns quite fast, Move, roll attack dice, decide how to use your action, draw encounter card. If you are the last player and its the right turn, draw an event card too.
Where i lost some time was reading and re-reading the monster scrolls, but after a while i knew what the monsters would do.
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Lonny x
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I tried playing on tabletopia but its just to slow for me to enjoy the game. It's better than nothing and it's cool they offer it but it's not for me. I read the manual to make sure that I like the mechanics. I also watched the Rahdo and Ricky play through and I didn't get the feeling that play was to slow.
 
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Grimflayer wrote:


Especially when i had to reshuffle a stack after drawing the last card, i had to put the cards from the discard exactly onto each other until the system accepted it as as stack and allowed me to reshuffle it.
If someone knows a trick how to make this easier, i would appreciate it.



reshuffling a discard deck is super easy, just hit F to flip the whole discard deck back to it's face down position, right click and hit shuffle. If you were not careful to put each discarded card neatly onto the pile, then you can just take the top card, flip it over to create the start of a new deck. Then take the bottom card of the discard pile and drag it over the draw pile and it will stack all the cards on top of it over the draw pile too.
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Ron Rhinehart
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Thanks all for the thoughtful responses. It sounds like TT could at least be blamed in part for the slowness. I do want to give the game another shot.
 
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Pierce Ostrander
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Ronnyknox wrote:
My group and I got together last night on Tabletopia to do a demo of S&S - I've been slavering over the campaign for the past few days and this was one of those 'do I back it' type of sessions. Tabletopia worked quite well for us, but I have to say I was extremely disappointed with the game.

I love the aesthetics, the (minor) twist on the familiar theme, the leveling mechanics, and the combat system. The game seems to inspire tactical play and interesting decisions. However, it played unbearably slow. In the two and a half hours we played, I had around 8 turns, half of which were either moving three spaces and ending my turn, or heading back to the respawn area. All in all I got to roll 10 dice in 2.5 hours, and make hardly any interesting decisions. We didn't even get halfway through the intro scenario.

Was it us? Have others experienced this same thing (we played with 4, with one person sort of running the game as they had played it twice before)? I supposed it could be tabletopia slowing it down a little, but to be honest the system actually seemed pretty snappy and well executed.

Would love to hear from others on this, because I honestly went from 'must back' to 'probably wont even buy at retail'.


Ron,

You have provided objective, factual information on your experience. There is no arguing with it: the game plays slowly.

I have watched two "play-through" videos (Rhado and Undead Viking) and after watching them, I draw the same conclusion.

If you have ever played an RPG, then you know that this is normal. These types of games tend to take a lot of time to sort through all the details. Of course, after multiple plays, things will speed up, but probably not by that much.

You probably need to reconcile yourself to the reality: this is not a wiz-dash experience. The game play is a plodding, detailed, procedural experience. The people who will love this game will forgive that because of the theme, the beautiful miniatures and the story they come away with.

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Pierce Ostrander
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fubar awol wrote:
Ronnyknox wrote:
My group and I got together last night on Tabletopia to do a demo of S&S - I've been slavering over the campaign for the past few days and this was one of those 'do I back it' type of sessions. Tabletopia worked quite well for us, but I have to say I was extremely disappointed with the game.

I love the aesthetics, the (minor) twist on the familiar theme, the leveling mechanics, and the combat system. The game seems to inspire tactical play and interesting decisions. However, it played unbearably slow. In the two and a half hours we played, I had around 8 turns, half of which were either moving three spaces and ending my turn, or heading back to the respawn area. All in all I got to roll 10 dice in 2.5 hours, and make hardly any interesting decisions. We didn't even get halfway through the intro scenario.

Was it us? Have others experienced this same thing (we played with 4, with one person sort of running the game as they had played it twice before)? I supposed it could be tabletopia slowing it down a little, but to be honest the system actually seemed pretty snappy and well executed.

Would love to hear from others on this, because I honestly went from 'must back' to 'probably wont even buy at retail'.


Ron,

You have provided objective, factual information on your experience. There is no arguing with it: the game plays slowly.

I have watched two "play-through" videos (Rhado and Undead Viking) and after watching them, I draw the same conclusion.

If you have ever played an RPG, then you know that this is normal. These types of games tend to take a lot of time to sort through all the details. Of course, after multiple plays, things will speed up, but probably not by that much.

You probably need to reconcile yourself to the reality: this is not a wiz-dash experience. The game play is a plodding, detailed, procedural experience. The people who will love this game will forgive that because of the theme, the beautiful miniatures and the story they come away with.


Looking at your ratings for the two Pathfinder Adventure Card Game Base sets - (you award a "10" to each). I think you will be fine with S&S.
 
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Dirk
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ELicious wrote:

reshuffling a discard deck is super easy, just hit F to flip the whole discard deck back to it's face down position, right click and hit shuffle. If you were not careful to put each discarded card neatly onto the pile, then you can just take the top card, flip it over to create the start of a new deck. Then take the bottom card of the discard pile and drag it over the draw pile and it will stack all the cards on top of it over the draw pile too.

Ah, i indeed placed the discards not as a stack. I will try this. Thank you very much
 
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James Turner
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fubar awol wrote:


I have watched two "play-through" videos (Rhado and Undead Viking) and after watching them, I draw the same conclusion.



I find that when I watch Rahdo do a playthrough, I wind up cheering for him to stop whibbling and just do the action, already. His videos are great for getting an idea of how the game plays, and I enjoy them, but I'm not sure he's entirely representative for how quickly a game plays.
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