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Subject: Scenario 5 question rss

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Jake Baker
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Just played Scenario 5 yesterday. It was really hard on the Soviets - time occured twice on the very first turn and then the German's got an IG-18 (I think - the "little" big gun) and placed it where it had a wide coverage.

Anyway, we had one question - the scenario specific rules state that one of Germany's three weapons is randomly broken at the start of the game. Do you determine which weapon is broken before the German's place their units on the map or afterwards?

Thanks for the great game Chad!
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John McLintock
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I would say this is determined before placement. My reasons are:
1. it doesn't say otherwise, so this is the simplest interpretation and is consistent with this special rule being a footnote to the forcelist
2. this is also consistent with the easiest method of choosing the broken weapon- blind draw of one weapon marker from the pool.
Hope this makes sense.
 
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Will Green
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At the Combat Commander Day last Sunday, we had the same question when playing this scenario. Fortunately, Kai Jensen, Chad's wife was available to answer the question. She said, "Draw this out before you set up." Then she picked up the weapons, and held them in her hand for my opponent to draw, the light machine-gun...of course.

My Russians were force-marched, by orders from the rear to rush for the "far horizon," as in the first fate-deck of play there were Three! Time! Triggers! In the next deck there were Two! Time! Triggers! Needless to say, the Russians were in no place to gain VPs.

We decided, after a stunning German Victory, to simply move the time marker back down the Time Track, to remain on this battlefield. In the next deck Three! Time! Triggers! emerged...

This, I do believe is rather unusual, and devastating to the attacker in a given scenario.

Great game!
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John Paul Sodusta
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This Scenario is hard on the Russians. I think the best way to win this game for the Russian is just to force the Germans to surrender and the only way to do this is through Melee. Your Squads get +1 on melee each and you overwhelm him with numbers. If he keeps moving back so you can't Assault, then it brings you closer to his map edge. You now have the advantage as the Russians. You also get help from the Russian weather as the Germans can't lay any more fortifications whatsoever. So you won't trip on any wires or mines to slow you down.

This is still difficult to pull off as your own morale as the commander will take hits as you will lose some men as you storm his fortified position. But with good plays and card management you'll stay on top.

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Chad Jensen
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Quote:
Anyway, we had one question - the scenario specific rules state that one of Germany's three weapons is randomly broken at the start of the game. Do you determine which weapon is broken before the German's place their units on the map or afterwards?


We generally play that you select the broken weapon before setting up but it really makes no difference as BOTH players are equally affected by this knowledge.

Quote:
This Scenario is hard on the Russians.


The Russian player needs to Move-Move-Move! If you don't have Moves/Advances in your hand, discard until you do (saving Concealment Actions and Recover Orders).

Note that Special Rule #2 disallows most of the German player's "Defender Only" Actions: no Hidden Mines, Hidden Wire, Hidden Pillbox, etc.

Also note that because of the double points for exiting, the Russian player can lose just as many squads as he exits and still win this scenario. You also have a whopping 8 turns in which to get this done.

John Paul points out another good strategy for the Russians in this one: win by attrition. In melee, you can trade 1-for-1 with your German adversary all day long and end up winning the game through sheer numbers.

At the end of testing, the Russians were actually slightly favored to win in this scenario....they just have to be played a bit differently then in other scenarios.
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Chad Jensen
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Quote:
in the first fate-deck of play there were Three! Time! Triggers! In the next deck there were Two! Time! Triggers! ... In the next deck Three! Time! Triggers! emerged...


Will, what does this mean exactly? It sounds as if you were playing something incorrectly.

In a single "fate deck of play" as you put it, there should only ever be a single Time Trigger - you roll boxcars and the deck is reshuffled anew - OR you empty the deck causing a Time Advancement and a reshuffle.

So how are you getting multiple Time Triggers (and, I'm assuming, Time Advancements) "per fate deck of play"?
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David desJardins
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I agree with Chad, it sounds like you're doing something wrong with the time triggers. And there are only 2 time triggers per deck, so what does it mean to get 3 of them?

I played scenario 5 and I got artillery support for the Russians; after I blanketed the map with smoke, the Germans didn't have much chance. Also the HMG started broken and was eliminated from play shortly afterward. Luck plays a huge role in CC, no question about that.
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John Paul Sodusta
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DaviddesJ wrote:
I played scenario 5 and I got artillery support for the Russians; after I blanketed the map with smoke, the Germans didn't have much chance. Also the HMG started broken and was eliminated from play shortly afterward. Luck plays a huge role in CC, no question about that.


What your opponent should have done is to keep firing and routing force the Breeze event. This is what I did when my opponent blanketed the whole map in the scenario with the 20 pt Objective building. I caught her with her pants down as she ran across the open ground. It was an uphill battle for her from then on.
 
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Chad Jensen
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I caught her with her pants down as she ran across the open ground.


Kai and I get into situations like this as well - we just finish the game at a later time. laugh
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Kai Jensen
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David desJardins
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Barkam wrote:
What your opponent should have done is to keep firing and routing force the Breeze event. This is what I did when my opponent blanketed the whole map in the scenario with the 20 pt Objective building. I caught her with her pants down as she ran across the open ground. It was an uphill battle for her from then on.


The odds of triggering a Breeze are pretty low (about 1% per dice roll). It's nice if it happens, but, if your strategy depends on it, you're going to lose a lot.
 
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John McLintock
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DaviddesJ wrote:
The odds of triggering a Breeze are pretty low (about 1% per dice roll). It's nice if it happens, but, if your strategy depends on it, you're going to lose a lot.

Eh? There are 6 Breeze cards per deck of 72 Fate cards. Surely that tranlates to roughly 8%?
 
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David desJardins
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JMcL63 wrote:
Eh? There are 6 Breeze cards per deck of 72 Fate cards. Surely that tranlates to roughly 8%?


The chance of getting an event is 8/72 (Russia) or 10/72 (Germany). Then the chance that the event is a Breeze is 6/72. Multiplying the two probabilities gives (approximately) 1%.
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John McLintock
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Oops! My bad. I'm now wishing I had chosen to include the obligatory 'unless I'm missing something' disclaimer in my previous post!
 
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Chad Jensen
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Quote:
The chance of getting an event is 8/72 (Russia) or 10/72 (Germany).


And 12/72 (America) for an overall likelyhood of 10/72 (14%) to roll an Event.

Quote:
Then the chance that the event is a Breeze is 6/72. Multiplying the two probabilities gives (approximately) 1%


Actually 6/71 since the card with the Event Trigger won't be eligible (unless it just happened to be the very last card in the deck).

This gives an overall chance of getting a Breeze at about 1.2% per die roll - or 1-in-83 rolls. But, even a single Fire Attack against a fully stacked hex (1x Leader, 1x Team, 1x Squad) is going to generate 4 die rolls all its own ... and note that this percentage goes up in a Germany vs America scenario, where most of the Smoke is going to be laid....
 
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David desJardins
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Chad Jensen wrote:
... and note that this percentage goes up in a Germany vs America scenario, where most of the Smoke is going to be laid....


Well, John Paul's comment was specifically about my situation in scenario 5 (Russians attacking Germans, with smoke being laid by my artillery reinforcements), so those are the numbers I used. It is interesting that it's harder to get rid of the Russian smoke than it would be to get rid of American smoke.
 
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John Paul Sodusta
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I agree it is a low percentage, but what else am I gonna do with those Fire Orders with no Ambush actions on it? Sure, I can discard, but if I have a chance to trigger Breeze then I'll shoot for the moon.

What I suggested is just another part of what one should be doing. I apologize for not making that explicit. If you failed in getting breezes then you should have quite a few ambushes to help you out when your opponent, inevitably Assaults. Obviously, this all depends if you get the right cards or not, but that the case in every CC game. I figured to say that explicitly as I want to avoid further ambiguities. You just gotta make do of what you have, but if you have the right cards then it's nice to have a general plan.
 
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John Paul Sodusta
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Chad Jensen wrote:
Quote:
I caught her with her pants down as she ran across the open ground.


Kai and I get into situations like this as well - we just finish the game at a later time. laugh


Hrm... I need to be more careful what I say from now on.
 
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Brian Bankler
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Just played scenario 5. A question -- if you move across an open ground via a road (following the road) is that 1.5 MPs or 1? Not sure if the road rules or the snow rules take precedence. (I think it's 1MP along a road, but wasn't sure).

In any case, I got Kah-reamed as the Russians. I triggered a time in the first ~20 cards of my deck three times, and used the initiative to stop a German 12 on a firepower roll. Time marched on. What with the constant reshuffling, my deck never had a good chance to smooth out. After an initial turn with 2 moves, I spent a long time just cycling and taking fire looking for another. To add insult to injury, I got exactly one good event (look at your opponents hand and discard). No snipers hit. Lots of useless breezes, a cower (!). It was laughably bad. I hadn't been able to break past the ~6th hex row buildings until time was at 11, and had suffered some light losses to get that are.

Still love the game, though.
 
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Chad Jensen
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Quote:
Just played scenario 5. A question -- if you move across an open ground via a road (following the road) is that 1.5 MPs or 1? Not sure if the road rules or the snow rules take precedence.

In your example it costs 1 MP as you were using the Road's MP cost instead of the Open Ground's MP cost.

Quote:
Still love the game, though.

On to scenario #6! cool
 
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Confusion Under Fire
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Chad Jensen wrote:

The Russian player needs to Move-Move-Move! If you don't have Moves/Advances in your hand, discard until you do (saving Concealment Actions and Recover Orders).


But that task is made much harder when you have 2 leaders eliminated before the first time event is seen!

 
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