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Subject: Battlelore: Get it or Not rss

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Gene Ksenzakovic
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Is there enough of a difference between Battlelore and Memoir '44 to justify the purchase? Opinions please.
 
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Michael Campbell
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By all means...GET BATTLELORE!

Memoir is great, but Battlelore is a step or two better.

I had concerns about the lore system being too fiddly and overpowering, but after trying it last week I am sold. It adds just the right amount of oomph to the game play.

The varying troop levels (which shows up in the Ancients version) is very cool as are the rules for support and pursuit.

I also like the War Council customization. This adds a lot of depth without add a lot of rules overhead.

Battlelore has a lot to love. It's the next generation of the C&C system.

I wish they would retrofit Battle Cry with some of the concepts in this game (like morale and support).
 
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Paul DeStefano
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Goblins riding giant lizards.

If that doesn't sell you, it doesn't matter what anyone posts.
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Gene Ksenzakovic
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So far the Fairplay games basket looks to be growing.
Thanks, I think.
 
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Marty M
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I would recommend getting Command & Colors: Ancients rather than BattleLore. C&C:A is (to my mind at least) a far superior game to either M44 or BL, and has a much greater shelf-life than either of those two games. It is easy to learn if you are familiar with M44, but there are considerably more aspects to the game - much more tactically challenging.

Just my , of couse.
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Paul DeStefano
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Goblins.

Riding giant lizards.
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Rob "Bodhi" Wolff
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We own Memoir '44, and it is indeed a very good game.

However, Battlelore is just that much better.

The focus switches to melee combat, with the rules for formations, morale, and battle-back -- all of which makes for a much more interesting game, and a much more subtle gameplay.

Add to that the Lore system, with its fascinating array of different styles of War Council, and you have increased the replayability of your favourite scenarios many-fold.

Add Creatures, with their unique abilities, cool power-ups, but slightly-too-squishy-to-count-on nature, and you've got hours of fun on your hands.

Add to that the fact that DoW will be releasing a flow of non-collectible booster packs *and* full-box expansions, with their ability to shift gameplay in various directions depending on the style you like, and you've got a game which might just have the ability to be custom-tailoured to fit every player's individual needs/wants/desires.

(personal note: C&C:A has Leaders, true. That difference doesn't stack up against all the others.)

So I'd say that getting Battlelore is a safe bet.
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Rudi Geudens
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elirlandes wrote:
I would recommend getting Command & Colors: Ancients rather than BattleLore. C&C:A is (to my mind at least) a far superior game to either M44 or BL, and has a much greater shelf-life than either of those two games. It is easy to learn if you are familiar with M44, but there are considerably more aspects to the game - much more tactically challenging.

Just my , of couse.


C&C Ancients is also comoponentswise the worst from the series... Better or worse than the others I wouldn't say (that's a matter of taste); just a damned shame it hasn't been produced by DOW: the wooden block system (and poor quality game board) just suck and will no doubt refrein its "general" popularity. About the shelf-life, I do agree: it will on average remain there longer (unsold) as compared to the other C&C games as produced by DOW.

Rudi
 
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Matt Keyes
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i don't think it is a matter of C&C:A stacking up against Battlelore or vice versa. The two have many parallels in rulesets, but the actual gameplay and "feel" of the game is very different, at least to me. The choices and options you have turn out very differently due to a few rule differences and specifications.

Regarding M44 and Battlelore, they are *very* different games. M44 is all about ranged combat and combined arms (to a small extent - i.e. when to use tanks vs. infantry). Battlelore and C&C:A are focused around melee combat, which does involve some ranged attacks, but mainly on troop movements in formation, forcing your opponent to engage in combat (either by cornering or drawing them out - although this is more pronounced in C&C:A), and mounting a tactical offensive through the use of coordinated units. M44 loses quite a bit of that, at least in my experience.

All three are good games. i would suggest M44 for youngsters as an intro to the system, then step them up to Battlelore, then step them up (in terms of tactical complexity) to C&C:A. For adults, jump right in at any given point.

Just my two cents...

(p.s. you can add your own figures for C&C:A separately, but i actually like the components - makes the game feel more abstracted - which this system is)
 
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Geo
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snedueg wrote:
C&C Ancients is also comoponentswise the worst from the series... Better or worse than the others I wouldn't say (that's a matter of taste); just a damned shame it hasn't been produced by DOW


I strongly disagree! Wooden blocks will last much more than the badly bent miniatures that come with Battlelore.

The C&C:A board though could be better (mounted).
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Johan L
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Major Sholto wrote:
By all means...GET BATTLELORE!

Memoir is great, but Battlelore is a step or two better.


What if you were lukewarm about M44 (mostly due to the luck factor - what do you mean the guys on the left flank can't move for three rounds just because you don't draw the right cards?), but are still tempted by the hype for Battlelore? cool
 
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Matt Keyes
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i would suggest then that using the card system (i.e. can't move certain units on demand) emulates quite well the lack of unit articulation that plagued commanders until the modern era (when radios, etc. were introduced). The ancient Greeks even pre-planned their movements before battles started!
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dave boulton
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Dwarfs, In kilts!
 
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Bill Bennett
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snedueg wrote:
...just a damned shame it hasn't been produced by DOW: the wooden block system (and poor quality game board) just suck...


To be fair, this is a matter of taste as well. Not so much the board, as I think anyone would prefer a board mounted on heavy cardboard to one printed directly on thin card. But I have heard a lot of people praise the blocks as superior to miniatures. Either because they find little plastic figures "childish", or because they think the blocks are easier to handle and move around the board. As a miniatures enthusiast, I don't agree with the first viewpoint at all, but I've found the blocks do have a certain charm of their own. I even heard an interview with Richard Borg who said that he often likes to use the blocks for C&C:Ancients, despite owning painted miniature armies.
 
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Paul DeStefano
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It has these goblins.

They ride on giant lizards.
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J Mathews
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As is right now, I do not feel that BattleLore is worth purchasing, nor do I feel that it is better than Memoir '44. This is because Memoir '44 gains so much from the expansions that there are many more options and many more scenarios out there. I have not played a BattleLore scenario yet that compares with the Stalingrad scenario in the Eastern Expansion. If someone else has and can point me to it, please do so.

Anyways, as of right now BattleLore, as Memoir was when it came out, isn't worth the price. However, like Memoir, it could become worth it if the expansions live up to the promise. I did not buy Memoir until playing the Expansions and I have not found any of the original scenarios to be up to par with either the Eastern or Pacific scenarios. I suspect BattleLore to be similar because the base game for BL just doesn't do it for me, and does not come close to justifying the price. However, the potential is there for BL to become much bigger and better than Memoir is. When that happens, I would say to get it.

(I write this with the understanding that Combat Commander has made the C&C system relatively obsolete for me and my wife and I am wondering if I will ever play a non-OverLord game of Memoir again. It goes without saying that I will be getting the Med. and Pacific expansions of CC before even considering what BL has to offer. And I am intrigued by Goblins riding Giant Lizards)
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Jon Quinn
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Geosphere wrote:
Goblins.

Riding giant lizards.


To be even more specific, judging from the pet iguana my daughter had,

Goblins riding giant iguanas.

 
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Paul DeStefano
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GeoMan wrote:
could be better (mounted).


On giant lizards.
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Paul DeStefano
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Maybe iguanas.
 
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Alan Kaiser
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snedueg wrote:

C&C Ancients is also comoponentswise the worst from the series...

Rudi


Sure the minis look very nice but from a game play point of view there is several advantages that the blocks have over the minis. First, it is easier to depict different unit types within the general light, medium and heavy classes. Ancients has two different type of light ranged units, two different types of light infantry units and two different types of medium infantry units. This would be difficult to do with the current banner system. The 2nd advantage is the blocks are easier to move around. And finally the blocks are easier to store. Oh and keep in mind that by using blocks GMT was able to pack more than a third more pieces into the game (210 minis vs. almost 350 blocks).

So really it's a matter of personal taste. And the map, well, yea it would have been nice to have a mounted map but cost is also an issue to a lot of people and Ancients costs less as well. For most wargamers there is always a sheet of plexiglass hanging around to turn a paper map into a sturdy board so that's not that big of an issue.
 
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Alan Kaiser
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EventHorizon wrote:
As is right now, I do not feel that BattleLore is worth purchasing, nor do I feel that it is better than Memoir '44. This is because Memoir '44 gains so much from the expansions that there are many more options and many more scenarios out there. I have not played a BattleLore scenario yet that compares with the Stalingrad scenario in the Eastern Expansion. If someone else has and can point me to it, please do so.


I agree with this. Battlelore just doesn't have many scenarios that I consider fun. Most give each side the same units and similar terrain. Pretty boring if you ask me. Sure there is the whole war council and lore system but I'd like to see some scenarios were each side has to approach the game a bit differently because of their unit mix, terrain or cards. The goblins and dwarves add some of that but outside of the few scenarios that use them I don't consider most of the scenarios to be actual scenarios! Giving each side the same basic units on the same basic terrain and mixing up the war council a little isn't a scenario! Give me something like the beach landing scenarios in Memoir '44.
 
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Paul DeStefano
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alkaiser wrote:
This would be difficult to do with the current banner system.


This is represented by the weapon icon.
 
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Mark McEvoy
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alkaiser wrote:
Sure the minis look very nice but from a game play point of view there is several advantages that the blocks have over the minis. First, it is easier to depict different unit types within the general light, medium and heavy classes. Ancients has two different type of light ranged units, two different types of light infantry units and two different types of medium infantry units.


BattleLore has three different types of light ranged units (Human Archers, Hobgoblin Archers, Iron Dwarf Crossbowmen), two different types of light infantry (Human Irregular Infantry, Goblin Skirmishers) and three different types of medium infantry (Human Regular Infantry, Iron Dwarf Swordsmen, and Goblin Swordsmen).
 
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Rudi Geudens
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snedueg wrote:

C&C Ancients is also comoponentswise the worst from the series...

Rudi


Sorry for quoting myself, but this in answer to all who disagree here with me: I'm foremost a miniature gamer and that's why I prefer miniatures over blocks or counters, but that's not the point when it comes to attracting newbies to the game: they'll be much more attracted to a game with "miniature" tokens than blocks that still need a lot of work to apply the stickers (correctly).

On the other hand: I'm in the process of painting the figures of 2 BL games, so right now I wish I would prefer counters (or blocks) over miniatures cry...

Rudi
 
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David Tolin
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alkaiser wrote:
Battlelore just doesn't have many scenarios that I consider fun. Most give each side the same units and similar terrain. Pretty boring if you ask me. Sure there is the whole war council and lore system but I'd like to see some scenarios were each side has to approach the game a bit differently because of their unit mix, terrain or cards.


I haven't had time, sadly, to play beyond the first scenario in Battlelore, but the scenario we've played (i.e, the first one) does exactly what you're asking. One side has a ton of archers and no cavalry, and the other side has cavalry but no archers (or few archers, I can't remember). Thus, the players have to adopt different strategies.

Is this the only scenario in the book that does this? (I haven't peeked ahead).
 
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