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Castles of Mad King Ludwig: Secrets» Forums » Rules

Subject: Moat Completion and Swan rooms rss

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Josh Brechtel
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During my first game tonight, My son completed his moat and went to take a room. He then asked if he would get the swans on the room tile. I decided no because the rules say the swans are added when the room tile is put in the auction track.

Did I play this correctly or did he beat me by even more points?
 
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Max Jamelli
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I thought the moat completion allowed you to take a room from the face down stacks ... or did I play it wrong?
 
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Mikko Saari
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Yes, you get the room from the face down stacks, hence the question as the swans should be added on the room when it's put on sale.

Anyway, I'd still award the swan tokens. Since completing the moat is the only way to get a room directly from the stacks, I'd consider it just a missing exception in the swan rules. I can see how someone could argue it the other way, too.
 
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Josh Brechtel
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sigtaulefty, I agree the room should come from one of the room stacks.

msaari, I agree that it is ambiguous in the rules.

Should a room be allotted swans after being pulled from the stacks or is it only when it is placed in the auction track for sale?
 
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Max Jamelli
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msaari wrote:
Yes, you get the room from the face down stacks, hence the question as the swans should be added on the room when it's put on sale.

Anyway, I'd still award the swan tokens. Since completing the moat is the only way to get a room directly from the stacks, I'd consider it just a missing exception in the swan rules. I can see how someone could argue it the other way, too.


I see what you're saying now ... I interpreted his question as the swan tokens (the actual tokens, not the symbols) on the tile.
 
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Larry L
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I would like clarification from Ted Alspach on this one.
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David Kiehnhoff
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I would like clarification as well. This happened in our game yesterday and we decided that the swans would be awarded. I could clearly see the other side of the argument as well and not award the swans depending on the intent.
 
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Jerry Hsu
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When this happened in my game, I elected to not take the swans.

I haven't checked to see if swan rooms are not as good point or layout wise as normal tiles. My assumption is that if they are basically the same then the swans are meant to add an additional consideration for pricing by the master builder.

If they are not as good point wise then the swans are clearly meant to balance that out and it makes sense that you would always get tokens for them regardless of how they were acquired.
 
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Dopey68 Gerty Wouters
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BEevoLI wrote:
During my first game tonight, My son completed his moat and went to take a room. He then asked if he would get the swans on the room tile. I decided no because the rules say the swans are added when the room tile is put in the auction track.

Did I play this correctly or did he beat me by even more points?


You did played it correctly according to the rulebook! But as I had the same question while playing Secrets for the first time yesterday, I asked the question through twitter. And here is the answer from Bezier Games:


https://twitter.com/kabouter68/status/682275282414350336

In case the link does not work: the answer is Yes you are awarded with a swan token, or 2 tokens when there 2 swans on the taken card.

Have fun playing and all the best for 2016!
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Marc McConley
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Wow, we also played it incorrectly. We interpreted that swans are only added when rooms are placed below the contract board, and since the bonus room was never placed below the contract board, it didn't get it. Looks like the official ruling says you get the swans though.

I did look through the new rooms and they look equivalent to me: points are always the same with different types used for the bonuses and penalties and different placement of entrances, but no more different than the base game rooms are from each other. In a few cases, a Secrets room is identical to a base game room in every respect except for the swan symbol.

The reason I looked through them was to see if I could still use the Secrets rooms to add variety when only playing the base game (without using the swan tokens), and I don't see why not.
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qreqorek qreqorek
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Dopey68 wrote:
BEevoLI wrote:
During my first game tonight, My son completed his moat and went to take a room. He then asked if he would get the swans on the room tile. I decided no because the rules say the swans are added when the room tile is put in the auction track.

Did I play this correctly or did he beat me by even more points?


You did played it correctly according to the rulebook! But as I had the same question while playing Secrets for the first time yesterday, I asked the question through twitter. And here is the answer from Bezier Games:


https://twitter.com/kabouter68/status/682275282414350336

In case the link does not work: the answer is Yes you are awarded with a swan token, or 2 tokens when there 2 swans on the taken card.

Have fun playing and all the best for 2016!


I do not agree with the @beziergames interpretation. In the same way there is no clarification, that in every new round you shouldn't place another swans on rooms in contract board, which didn't bought in previous one. I has seen a lot of interpretation of publisher, which are not authorised by author, which later was rectification. If in the rules are indicated only that you pick up a room and place it with no cost, for me it means that no additional actions/interpretations allowed.

Only the author interpretation should to be binding.
 
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Andy Burgess
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qreqorek wrote:
Dopey68 wrote:
BEevoLI wrote:
During my first game tonight, My son completed his moat and went to take a room. He then asked if he would get the swans on the room tile. I decided no because the rules say the swans are added when the room tile is put in the auction track.

Did I play this correctly or did he beat me by even more points?


You did played it correctly according to the rulebook! But as I had the same question while playing Secrets for the first time yesterday, I asked the question through twitter. And here is the answer from Bezier Games:


https://twitter.com/kabouter68/status/682275282414350336

In case the link does not work: the answer is Yes you are awarded with a swan token, or 2 tokens when there 2 swans on the taken card.

Have fun playing and all the best for 2016!


I do not agree with the @beziergames interpretation. In the same way there is no clarification, that in every new round you shouldn't place another swans on rooms in contract board, which didn't bought in previous one. I has seen a lot of interpretation of publisher, which are not authorised by author, which later was rectification. If in the rules are indicated only that you pick up a room and place it with no cost, for me it means that no additional actions/interpretations allowed.

Only the author interpretation should to be binding.


You don't agree with the ruling of the twitter account of the publishing company started by the designer of that game? Ok..... shake
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qreqorek qreqorek
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wrote:
You don't agree with the ruling of the twitter account of the publishing company started by the designer of that game? Ok..... shake


Yes, I do not agree, because it is obvious that on the twitter writes a person which only works in Publisher company. The company have a lot of other games, which is means that probably the person is not an expert of Castles of Mad King Ludwig. Once again - I has seen situations, when a representant of a company said something and later author said something different.
 
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M. B. Downey
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qreqorek wrote:
wrote:
You don't agree with the ruling of the twitter account of the publishing company started by the designer of that game? Ok..... shake


Yes, I do not agree, because it is obvious that on the twitter writes a person which only works in Publisher company. The company have a lot of other games, which is means that probably the person is not an expert of Castles of Mad King Ludwig. Once again - I has seen situations, when a representant of a company said something and later author said something different.


So because some other company for a completely different game has previously said something that the designer for that completely different game later contradicted, that means that all responses from all companies are to be ignored unless and until the designer weighs in?
 
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Ted Alspach
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qreqorek qreqorek
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geekmailed me with a request to reply here.

The official answer (again) is Yes, you get a random swan token (or 2 for 500/600 rooms) when you place a room with swans on it via the Moat reward.


The @beziergames twitter feed is managed by
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qreqorek qreqorek
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Thanks a lot for the clarification
 
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M. B. Downey
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Thanks to Phoebe for doing an awesome job managing the twitter feed!
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