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Subject: Deadeye Walkers, NPC#2, OR Crows rss

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Brandon Alderman
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I'm new to the Zombicide Franchise and am pretty set on the Knight Pledge plus the deck holders (I think?) unless someone can talk me into something else. Anyways I'm looking at these 3 sets and wondering what people's opinions are on what would be the best choice. Any advice is appreciated I'm attempting to finalize my Pledge.
 
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Max Maloney
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All three are pretty appealing, but I'd probably choose Deadeye Walkers if only getting one. None are exclusive, so you don't have to choose on that basis. You are getting NPC box 1 as a stretch goal. Crows have a certain similarity to Wolfs; certainly moreso than anything has to the Deadeye Walkers, which are the most unique.

You are getting a Knight pledge, right? Because that's the first and best upgrade.
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Shane D
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In my case it's all three. They will all add something to the game. The npc pack will add 3 new vault cards but as we are already getting 32 npcs already they could easily be skipped. Crows add a new dynamic as they are on you much quicker than regular zombies so will level you up quicker. Deadeye walkers will certainly add a bit of fear to the game. Being able to shoot from 3 zones away will require tactical retreats or advances. Deadeyes will shake up a game session the most and that is what I would recommend if you are only going to get one.
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fortheloveofdice
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I think I'm going to wait until retail for all of them. I'll have plenty to play when I get the pledge, and can add any of these later if I feel I need more.
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Adam Trezise
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If I had to choose one.

It'd be the Deadeye Walkers... as far as I'm aware, there haven't been any Zombies to date that do ranged attacks.

The Crowz are similar to the wulfz and the NPC's, as far as I can see, don't really add too much to the game.
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Saer Chy
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I also believe that the deadeye walkers will add a lot to the game. 3 range is quite a lot and this will punish passive players who think they can withstand a group of zombies by turtling. I think the deadeye walker will also finely balance the towers which are added in the wolfburg expansion. The towers are a good place to deal with a large incoming horde of zombies. But if there are deadeye walkers mixed in with them it'll be a deathtrap since there will be no place to stay out of range. So with this the towers won't be an instant choice to go to when things go bad, but instead it'll be situational.

The NPC#2 box adds 3 vault cards (more variation!) but it also gives a better chance to get a bonus vault card in game because there are more kinds of NPC zombies. Whenever you've killed 5 different NPC zombies, you'll get a random vault card. If I remember correctly you have to pick a random NPC zombie whenever they spawn, so by adding different NPC zombies you increase the chance to get a different one with each spawn. Ofcourse you could houserule it so you always get a different one, but where is the fun in that. ;D

Personally I don't really like the crows, they feel a lot like the wolfs to me. Their mechanics are not that unique that I believe they add a lot to the game. Instead of the crows I would recommend the 3D doors pack. Ofcourse the doors don't add anything to the game either, but they make the board look a lot more lively and it'll be a lot easier to see which door is already opened and which isn't.
For me one of the most important things about this game is the atmosphere, and the 3D doors will add a lot to that.
 
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Joe Crane
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NPC 2 comes with a boomstick. So if you like good and evil ash, well I would get it for that alone.
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David Doughty
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VaeVictis666 wrote:
NPC 2 comes with a boomstick. So if you like good and evil ash, well I would get it for that alone.
I was about to say the same thing. That is the only reason I am getting the NPC 2 pack, but it is by far worth it.
 
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Shane D
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A few people have stated that crowz are similar to wolvez. This is not right. Crowz move directly towards the loudest zone ignoring all barriers. They can fly over buildings and enter them through cracked windows where wolvez must travel around buildings to open doors. Crowz get 1 activation and can move 3 squares where wolvez get 3 activations and mave 1 square at a time. If they were both 1 square away from you the crowz would move forward 1 square and finish their turn where the wolvez would move once and attack twice. Not being a rule nazi here just want to give the OP the correct info so they can make an informed decision.
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Saer Chy
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Fireball73 wrote:
A few people have stated that crowz are similar to wolvez. This is not right. Crowz move directly towards the loudest zone ignoring all barriers. They can fly over buildings and enter them through cracked windows where wolvez must travel around buildings to open doors. Crowz get 1 activation and can move 3 squares where wolvez get 3 activations and mave 1 square at a time. If they were both 1 square away from you the crowz would move forward 1 square and finish their turn where the wolvez would move once and attack twice. Not being a rule nazi here just want to give the OP the correct info so they can make an informed decision.
You are completely right. And that is also the exact reason people say they are similar to the wolfz, they both can move 3 spaces in 1 turn. Both the crowz and the wolfz add the same type of unit to the game: a unit that reaches you very fast. Although the crowz could potentially be a lot faster, it adds the same game dynamics as the wolfz.
So yeah, it is right that crowz are similar to the wolfz. They are not identical ofcourse, but they really are similar.
 
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Joe Crane
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Saerchy wrote:
Fireball73 wrote:
A few people have stated that crowz are similar to wolvez. This is not right. Crowz move directly towards the loudest zone ignoring all barriers. They can fly over buildings and enter them through cracked windows where wolvez must travel around buildings to open doors. Crowz get 1 activation and can move 3 squares where wolvez get 3 activations and mave 1 square at a time. If they were both 1 square away from you the crowz would move forward 1 square and finish their turn where the wolvez would move once and attack twice. Not being a rule nazi here just want to give the OP the correct info so they can make an informed decision.
You are completely right. And that is also the exact reason people say they are similar to the wolfz, they both can move 3 spaces in 1 turn. Both the crowz and the wolfz add the same type of unit to the game: a unit that reaches you very fast. Although the crowz could potentially be a lot faster, it adds the same game dynamics as the wolfz.
So yeah, it is right that crowz are similar to the wolfz. They are not identical ofcourse, but they really are similar.
A wolf pack will kill your team in one turn if they are close, crows won't.
 
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Brandon Alderman
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Dormammu wrote:
All three are pretty appealing, but I'd probably choose Deadeye Walkers if only getting one. None are exclusive, so you don't have to choose on that basis. You are getting NPC box 1 as a stretch goal. Crows have a certain similarity to Wolfs; certainly moreso than anything has to the Deadeye Walkers, which are the most unique.

You are getting a Knight pledge, right? Because that's the first and best upgrade.
Yes to Knight Pledge.
 
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Saer Chy
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VaeVictis666 wrote:
Saerchy wrote:
Fireball73 wrote:
A few people have stated that crowz are similar to wolvez. This is not right. Crowz move directly towards the loudest zone ignoring all barriers. They can fly over buildings and enter them through cracked windows where wolvez must travel around buildings to open doors. Crowz get 1 activation and can move 3 squares where wolvez get 3 activations and mave 1 square at a time. If they were both 1 square away from you the crowz would move forward 1 square and finish their turn where the wolvez would move once and attack twice. Not being a rule nazi here just want to give the OP the correct info so they can make an informed decision.
You are completely right. And that is also the exact reason people say they are similar to the wolfz, they both can move 3 spaces in 1 turn. Both the crowz and the wolfz add the same type of unit to the game: a unit that reaches you very fast. Although the crowz could potentially be a lot faster, it adds the same game dynamics as the wolfz.
So yeah, it is right that crowz are similar to the wolfz. They are not identical ofcourse, but they really are similar.
A wolf pack will kill your team in one turn if they are close, crows won't.
I said it adds the same game dynamics. The fact that wolfz have more activations per turn doesn't change the fact that it's a 'it will get to you fast' kind of zombie, just as the crowz.
I'll repeat, they are NOT identical, they are similar because they offer the same game dynamics.

Normal zombies: benchmark
Fatties: these things are harder to kill
abomination: these things are even harder to kill!
Deadeye walkers: these things can shoot from a distance, !@#$
Runners: these things are faster
Wolfz: these things are even faster!
Crowz: these things are even faster!
 
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Jeroen Timmermans
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Saerchy wrote:
VaeVictis666 wrote:
Saerchy wrote:
Fireball73 wrote:
A few people have stated that crowz are similar to wolvez. This is not right. Crowz move directly towards the loudest zone ignoring all barriers. They can fly over buildings and enter them through cracked windows where wolvez must travel around buildings to open doors. Crowz get 1 activation and can move 3 squares where wolvez get 3 activations and mave 1 square at a time. If they were both 1 square away from you the crowz would move forward 1 square and finish their turn where the wolvez would move once and attack twice. Not being a rule nazi here just want to give the OP the correct info so they can make an informed decision.
You are completely right. And that is also the exact reason people say they are similar to the wolfz, they both can move 3 spaces in 1 turn. Both the crowz and the wolfz add the same type of unit to the game: a unit that reaches you very fast. Although the crowz could potentially be a lot faster, it adds the same game dynamics as the wolfz.
So yeah, it is right that crowz are similar to the wolfz. They are not identical ofcourse, but they really are similar.
A wolf pack will kill your team in one turn if they are close, crows won't.
I said it adds the same game dynamics. The fact that wolfz have more activations per turn doesn't change the fact that it's a 'it will get to you fast' kind of zombie, just as the crowz.
I'll repeat, they are NOT identical, they are similar because they offer the same game dynamics.

Normal zombies: benchmark
Fatties: these things are harder to kill
abomination: these things are even harder to kill!
Deadeye walkers: these things can shoot from a distance, !@#$
Runners: these things are faster
Wolfz: these things are even faster!
Crowz: these things are even faster!
Where the Crowz come fast at you, the Wolfz can come in fast AND deal serious damage.

Crowz either move up to three, or deal 1 damage.
Wolfz either move up to three and/or deal up to 3 damage.

There's a slight distinction there that makes Wolfz slightly more dangerous than Crowz. Although Crowz make up for the lack of potential damage by ignoring walls, roofs and other barricades other zombies (incl Wolfz) are hindered by, saying they're similar because they both can move three spaces is a bit oversimplified IMHO.
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Silver Bowen
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NPC #2 - we are already getting NPC #1. If I want more NPCs (unlikely), I'll just mix in some cards from Season 03. Crowz - I'll use the Season 03 set and cards (just draw cards from bottom of deck). Deadeye Walkers - these won't really be any cheaper online/retail, so I added them to my order. Also added Conan and Red Sonja.
 
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Saer Chy
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jeroenemans wrote:

Where the Crowz come fast at you, the Wolfz can come in fast AND deal serious damage.

Crowz either move up to three, or deal 1 damage.
Wolfz either move up to three and/or deal up to 3 damage.

There's a slight distinction there that makes Wolfz slightly more dangerous than Crowz. Although Crowz make up for the lack of potential damage by ignoring walls, roofs and other barricades other zombies (incl Wolfz) are hindered by, saying they're similar because they both can move three spaces is a bit oversimplified IMHO.
I agree with you and that's why I said they were similar in the sense of creating the same game dynamic.

I don't think you fully understand what I mean with game dynamics. Dynamics are the emergent behavior that arises from gameplay, when the mechanics are put into use. So even though the mechanics are different between wolfz and crowz (different damage output as you've stated), the response to them from the players is very similar. You have to deal with them fast because they reach you fast. And that is the similar gameplay I am talking about which in result creates similar game dynamics. That is why many people feel that the crowz and wolfz offer the same thing.

So I'm not saying they are similar because they both can move 3 spaces, I say that they are similar because they create the same game dynamics which is the result of them both being able to move 3 spaces.
 
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Jeroen Timmermans
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Saerchy wrote:
jeroenemans wrote:

Where the Crowz come fast at you, the Wolfz can come in fast AND deal serious damage.

Crowz either move up to three, or deal 1 damage.
Wolfz either move up to three and/or deal up to 3 damage.

There's a slight distinction there that makes Wolfz slightly more dangerous than Crowz. Although Crowz make up for the lack of potential damage by ignoring walls, roofs and other barricades other zombies (incl Wolfz) are hindered by, saying they're similar because they both can move three spaces is a bit oversimplified IMHO.
I agree with you and that's why I said they were similar in the sense of creating the same game dynamic.

I don't think you fully understand what I mean with game dynamics. Dynamics are the emergent behavior that arises from gameplay, when the mechanics are put into use. So even though the mechanics are different between wolfz and crowz (different damage output as you've stated), the response to them from the players is very similar. You have to deal with them fast because they reach you fast. And that is the similar gameplay I am talking about which in result creates similar game dynamics. That is why many people feel that the crowz and wolfz offer the same thing.

So I'm not saying they are similar because they both can move 3 spaces, I say that they are similar because they create the same game dynamics which is the result of them both being able to move 3 spaces.
I see what you're saying and I still disagree. Crowz ignore any and all obstacles, making them impossible to hide from indoorz or on towerz. Wolfz are stuck to the ground and cannot move through wallz and have to circle around a tower in order to get up.
So the gameplay dynamics these two types bring to the table are very different.
 
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Saer Chy
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jeroenemans wrote:

I see what you're saying and I still disagree. Crowz ignore any and all obstacles, making them impossible to hide from indoorz or on towerz. Wolfz are stuck to the ground and cannot move through wallz and have to circle around a tower in order to get up.
So the gameplay dynamics these two types bring to the table are very different.
Would you please clarify to why the gameplay dynamics of these two are very different?

The behavioral response between a fatty and a wolf for example is quite obvious: The fatty could be kited until enough damage could be dealt, or might even be ignored for an amount of turns because it so slow. The wolf will need to be dealt with quickly after it has spawned because it will close in on you fast.
In my opinion the crowz elicit the same behavioral response: need to be dealt with quickly because it will close in on you fast.

This feel of similarity is increased by the fact that it is the third type of zombie which elicits this response. First the runners, than the wolfz which are even faster, and than the crowz which are potentially even faster. If another type of zombie would be introduced, the motorcycle zombie which can move 5 spaces in 1 turn, the response of most people would also be that it would bring nothing new to the game. Even though the mechanics are clearly different, the response is very similar: it need to be dealt with even faster.

So please elaborate more on why you believe the resulted dynamics, based on behavioral response, between the wolfz and crowz are very different. I am honestly interested because maybe I am missing something fundamental here.
 
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Max Maloney
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Being picky about the distinctions between wolfs and crows is silly. We all know they aren't precisely the same.

But the original question was about buying only one of three options. In that context, Deadeye Walkers clearly are more distinct from the options in the base game and expansion than either other option.

That's the only point being made. Crows are closer to something already in the package than Deadeye Walkers are. Are crows identical to wolfs? No. Are they more similar to wolfs than ranged attackers are to anything else? Yes.
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