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Subject: Turn Order / Phase Order rss

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Michael W.
Austria
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Hello to everybody!

After a few games we can tell, that this game is AMAZING! But there is a big question we came up with:

The rulebook say, that we do not play all phases (there are 5 phases as mentioned in the end of the rulebook on pg. 29). But you only play phases if there are required (for example: without module 9 there is no phase 4). But you play always with phase 3 (and the subphases of phase 3 depending on the selected modules). This is clear to us.
BUT: The rulebook say further, that the players execute phases 1,2,4 and 5 together and in phase 3 each player take his turn. This is how we understand this for a 3 player game if we would play all phases (player 1 is first, then player 2 and last player 3):

Phase 1: player 1, then player 2, then player 3
THEN
Phase 2: in order like phase 1
THEN
Phase 3: Player 1 playes Phase 3a then 3b and so on. Then player 2 playes Phase 3a then 3b and so on. The same for player 3.
THEN
Phase 4: in order like phase 1
THEN
Phase 5: in order like phase 1

We played our games like this and it worked well. But when we played with module 7 (majorities) on Top 1 the rulebook say that at the end of a player turn you reveal the scoring card (=Phase 5) and execute a scoring or not and the next player makes his turn. But when you play as mentioned above the other players would done there turn (=phase 3) already. So perhaps the right order of a turn could be:
Player 1: Phase 1-5 THEN: Player 2: Phase 1-5 and so on. But this makes no sense at all for us because the rulebook say you play this phase togheter.

What we are doing wrong? Or we just are too stupid
Thanks for answering!
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Jorgen Peddersen
Australia
Sydney
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A player's turn effectively ends at the end of Phase 3. The other Phases happen before the end of the round (only if they are necessary). So when something happens at the end of the turn (or the beginning of the turn for that matter), it only refers to Phase 3, not any of the other Phases.

In other words, there are no turns in Phase 1,2,4&5. Note that with these Phases, things don't necessarily happen in player order. You can treat them as happening simultaneously, usually.
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Michael W.
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Thanks for your answer!

But I still don't get it right! blush

Please, can you give me an example how a complete round would be in world 789 with 3 players?

My problem is: I understand that a player's turn is the whole phase 3 (only the subphases a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h, it they are necessary) and you do this in order (player 1 plays phase 3a,3b,3c and so on and THEN player 2 plays phases 3a, 3b and so on). But I don't understand when the other phases are played.

First I believed you play phase 1,2,3,4,5 (like power grid for example every player do things in phase 1 then every player do things in phase 2 and so on) in this order. But because of your answere I believe you play phase 1,2,4,5 (all player together) and then 3 (in order)? But when this is true, why the phases are mentioned in the rulebook in the order 1,2,3,4,5 and not 1,2,4,5 and 3? Also I read the rulebook once more and on page 29 (phases overviewe) there is the following sentence: you play phases 1,2,4 and 5 togheter and then every player plays phase 3 in order.

Sorry, but I'm really confused now?
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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I'm sorry for confusing you. What I was meaning is that it is more like this:

Phase 1: All players implement this together.
Phase 2: All players implement this together.
Phase 3: Players take turns in the order determined by Phase 1
Phase 4: All players implement this together.
Phase 5: All players implement this together.

Now, having looked over the rulebook, I see the confusion. Scoring is all stated to happen in Stage 5, yet it mentions that at the end of the turn, you flip a card for scoring.

That is a bit misleading. The card flip only makes sense if it occurs immediately after each player's turn in Phase 3. I believe that part of the summary at the end of the rulebook is actually incorrect in this regard. It should not mention flipping the scoring card in that Phase.

So you flip the card at the end of each turn within Phase 3. If the card shows the scoring icon, you immediately implement a Phase 5, with everyone involved, then you return to Phase 3 at the next player's turn.

So yes, the way it is represented in the rulebook is a little odd and confusing, and kind of incorrect. But what you need to do is straight-forward. Don't get too hung up on the turn order listing or the Phase numbering and just follow what the instructions for scoring say.
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Michael W.
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Many, many thanks to you!

Now I understand. So I'm not so stupid as I thought!

The rulebook is the problem. But this can happen, when a game makes rules
for 504 different games. Perhaps someone has too much time and writes the
rules for the 504 games?

greetings
 
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Henning Kröpke
Germany
Ascheberg
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Trying to help you officially, explaining your suggested example of "World 789". As Jorgen already answered, Phase 5 (Scoring) is slightly off, as it (sadly) is both played in order and together...

A game round in this world is played as follows:
Phase 1: The players determine the player order for the round, following the rules of module 7. This is done together.

(Phase 2 is skipped, as you do not play with module 3.)

------------------------
Now Player 1 plays all necessary sub-phases of Phase 3 AND Phase 5.

Phase 3:
3 B: Stock dealing
3 C: Purchase
3 D: Residents
3 H: Income

Phase 5: Scoring & Final Scoring
After finishing all sub-phases of Phase 3, player 1 reveals the scoring card.
a) If it shows a "green check symbol", player 2 now plays his Phase 3 AND Phase 5.
b) If it is a scoring, the game is paused and all players score their VP. If it is the third (and final) scoring, the game ends immediately.

---------------------------

Designer's decision: We decided to move this scoring into its own Phase 5, as this whole procedure is a little bit special compared to the other modules.

Side note: As I continue to learn, not all designer's decisions are the most clever

Henning
(2F-Spiele)
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Michael W.
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Thanks for the official answer!
Now turn order / phase order should be clear to me and of course the other players. Perhaps this could be included in the FAQ too.

There are so many things in this game, that work very well.
And there are just a few things, which are sometimes a little bit confusing. So in relation to 504 games you can play, this is not so bad. I could imaginge that you had to make many, many designer's decision. And the most of them are really elegant AND clever
 
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