Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
14 Posts

Eldritch Horror: Strange Remnants» Forums » Rules

Subject: Regarding the wording on Syzygy mysteries (place 1 clue) rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Juozas Kazlauskas
Lithuania
Druskininkai
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Hi, I was little unsure about the wording on some of the new Syzygy mysteries (like Unearthly Piping or Shrouded in Mysticism). Those mysteries say

"you may spend 1 clue and discard 1 spell to place 1 clue on this card".


So, according to the wording, do I have to
1. discard 1 clue and 1 spell
2. take 1 clue from the clue pool and place it on the mystery?

And if that is correct way, why just not make things simpler and say "you may discard 1 spell and spend 1 clue to place that clue on this card"?

Because previously we had mysteries that said "spend 1 clue to place 1 eldritch token" or "spend 1 clue you gain from the encounter and place that clue on the card".

Or this is just a lack of consistency, like with the format of the traits (Magical Relic, see there: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1414445/magical-relic-consi...)?

BTW, love this mini expansion and the way expansions are incorporated. Syzygy plays differently than other AO's and all the a la "Indiana Jones" feeling of exploring ruins, getting relics is very flavourful.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Krzysiek Domański
Poland
Wrocław
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
camouflage wrote:
"you may spend 1 clue and discard 1 spell to place 1 clue on this card".

So, according to the wording, do I have to
1. discard 1 clue and 1 spell
2. take 1 clue from the clue pool and place it on the mystery?
Correct.
camouflage wrote:
And if that is correct way, why just not make things simpler and say "you may discard 1 spell and spend 1 clue to place that clue on this card"
Well, it would change the propabilities. Although not in any meaningful way, I suppose.
As for the consistency, I would need to read all the similar mysteries to comment on that.

Below you'll see a lot better answer.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
George Aristides
Cyprus
Nicosia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
camouflage wrote:

And if that is correct way, why just not make things simpler and say "you may discard 1 spell and spend 1 clue to place that clue on this card"?
Currently, you can use a "virtual clue" (e.g. Normal Withers' ability, silver key artifact) to satisfy the mystery without actually needing to spend a clue.

The alternative wording (in some other mysteries) actually requires you to spend a specific clue (typically when gained from a research encounter) so no virtual clues can be used.
3 
 Thumb up
0.01
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Juozas Kazlauskas
Lithuania
Druskininkai
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
nobody82b wrote:

Currently, you can use a "virtual clue" (e.g. Normal Withers' ability, silver key artifact) to satisfy the mystery without actually needing to spend a clue.

The alternative wording (in some other mysteries) actually requires you to spend a specific clue (typically when gained from a research encounter) so no virtual clues can be used.
Ah, obviously, that makes a huge difference! blush Should have seen that

Thanks for clarification!

It confused me - I believe that is the first time in EH, when you can take the clue from the pool and place it directly on the mystery. Prior to Strange Remnants, you had to spend a clue to put that clue on the mystery, and eldritch tokens were place directly (thus, you could spend a "virtual" clue to place an eldritch token).

Is there a reason why it could not have been "you may spend 1 clue and discard 1 spell to put 1 eldritch token on the card" to keep the consistency? Thematic reasons, perhaps?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Krzysiek Domański
Poland
Wrocław
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
camouflage wrote:
Is there a reason why it could not have been "you may spend 1 clue and discard 1 spell to put 1 eldritch token on the card" to keep the consistency?
I see no good reason. I would definitely prefer to use eldritch tokens as counters, whenever it's possible.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
MC Crispy
United Kingdom
Basingstoke
Hampshire
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
haroth9842 wrote:
camouflage wrote:
Is there a reason why it could not have been "you may spend 1 clue and discard 1 spell to put 1 eldritch token on the card" to keep the consistency?
I see no good reason. I would definitely prefer to use eldritch tokens as counters, whenever it's possible.
Agreed. But the text of this card tells me that the cost is TWO Clues. The one that you spend and the one that you put on the card (of course it could have said "spend 2 Clues to put an Eldritch Token..."). But it may be a typo and the second Clue should have read "Edritch Token". I suggest that somebody drops Nikki a line via the FFG website to get a definitive answer.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Juozas Kazlauskas
Lithuania
Druskininkai
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
mcrispy wrote:
Agreed. But the text of this card tells me that the cost is TWO Clues. The one that you spend and the one that you put on the card (of course it could have said "spend 2 Clues to put an Eldritch Token..."). But it may be a typo and the second Clue should have read "Edritch Token". I suggest that somebody drops Nikki a line via the FFG website to get a definitive answer.
Actually, I interpreted the text on these mysteries just as you say during my first 3 plays against Syzygy, that is, I was spending 1 clue and placing the second clue (belonging to the investigator, not from the clue pool) on the mystery card.

And after that I started to wonder what does "placing a clue token" really means and had changed my mind - I believe that when you "place" the clue on the card, you have to take it from the clue pool (just like when you place eldritch tokens, by taking them from the common token pool), because otherwise you would be "spending" it.

The problem is, the "placing" of the clue is not defined anywhere, we know how to gain clues, spend, spawn them, etc. but there is no clarity in this case.

Anyway, as we can see, the wording on these cards definitely causes confusion, so I agree that we need a definitive answer, unless someone has more arguments. I don't think this is a typo, because it's not one, but two mysteries, which say that - "Unearthly Piping" and "Shrouded in Mysticism"...

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Juozas Kazlauskas
Lithuania
Druskininkai
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Hmm... Maybe the whole point of that wording (and choice of "place 1 clue" instead "place 1 eldritch token") is to imply that one of the 2 needed clues must be a "physical" one? That might explain everything.

If the wording was "discard 1 spell and spend 2 clues to place an eldritch token" that would allow a possibility of some powerful combos with two "virtual clues" (like Norman + Silver Key, or other to-be-released items).

It can't be "discard 1 spell and spend 2 clues to place one of these clues on the card", because, according to the reference book (p.11) "when an investigator spends a token or card, such as a Clue token, he discards it in exchange for an effect".

If "the cost" is 1 clue (and the other clue is taken from the clue pool), the current wording does not make sense, because it could just have been "discard 1 spell and spend 1 clue to place 1 eldritch token", as usual.

So, maybe the cost is really 2 clues? And you have to:
1. discard 1 spell
2. spend 1 clue (can be physical, can be "virtual").
3. place 1 clue on the card from your possesions (must be "physical").

This actually makes sense... I guess.

Let's wait if someone has more arguments to add, and I'll drop Nikki a line to get a definitive answer.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Bauer
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
camouflage wrote:
If "the cost" is 1 clue (and the other clue is taken from the clue pool), the current wording does not make sense, because it could just have been "discard 1 spell and spend 1 clue to place 1 eldritch token", as usual.

So, maybe the cost is really 2 clues? And you have to:
1. discard 1 spell
2. spend 1 clue (can be physical, can be "virtual").
3. place 1 clue on the card from your possesions (must be "physical").

This actually makes sense... I guess.
I disagree with that. You base your argumentation on the fact that just because the mystery wants you to place clues instead of eldritch token on it, you have to take it from your possessions instead of from the pool.
But eldritch token have a common pool and clues have that as well. There is no indication that the clue has to come from the investigator. Aren't there even cards that tell you to place clues on certain spaces on the board? If yes, would you also take them from the investigators?


1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
George Aristides
Cyprus
Nicosia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
camouflage wrote:

Let's wait if someone has more arguments to add, and I'll drop Nikki a line to get a definitive answer.
I think an official answer would be good, but if 2 clues per investigator are needed for these mysteries then they would be ridiculously difficult
(there is already that one Syzygy mystery that requires spending twice-investigator of research-encounter clues, which is hard enough as it is)

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Juozas Kazlauskas
Lithuania
Druskininkai
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Anduin wrote:
camouflage wrote:
If "the cost" is 1 clue (and the other clue is taken from the clue pool), the current wording does not make sense, because it could just have been "discard 1 spell and spend 1 clue to place 1 eldritch token", as usual.

So, maybe the cost is really 2 clues? And you have to:
1. discard 1 spell
2. spend 1 clue (can be physical, can be "virtual").
3. place 1 clue on the card from your possesions (must be "physical").

This actually makes sense... I guess.
I disagree with that. You base your argumentation on the fact that just because the mystery wants you to place clues instead of eldritch token on it, you have to take it from your possessions instead of from the pool.
But eldritch token have a common pool and clues have that as well. There is no indication that the clue has to come from the investigator. Aren't there even cards that tell you to place clues on certain spaces on the board? If yes, would you also take them from the investigators?


Fair enough. Show me an example of the card telling to place clue on certain space on the board, and I am abandoning my theory straight away. As far as I remember, it is always "spawn a clue", correct me if I am wrong...

I know that my argumentation (speculation, I would say) is not very strong here, but at least it justifies the selection of the wording (and clue instead of the eldritch token) on those mystery cards.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Juozas Kazlauskas
Lithuania
Druskininkai
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I dropped a line to FFG for the official clarification. Let's see if my victory was legit today (I placed the clue from the clue pool on "Unearthly Piping" mystery card)
2 
 Thumb up
0.02
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
MC Crispy
United Kingdom
Basingstoke
Hampshire
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
camouflage wrote:
I dropped a line to FFG for the official clarification. Let's see if my victory was legit today (I placed the clue from the clue pool on "Unearthly Piping" mystery card)
Thanks for doing that for the community.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Juozas Kazlauskas
Lithuania
Druskininkai
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
Hello Juozas,

An effect that states “place 1 Clue on [a card]” means to take a Clue from the Clue pool and place it on the indicated card.

These Mysteries which require a Clue be spent typically place a Clue instead of an Eldritch token because it saves a step in practice. Discarding a Clue and then reaching for an Eldritch token is one step more than just placing the Clue you are spending onto the Mystery.

Thanks for playing!
~ Nikki Valens
Fantasy Flight Games
Well, it's good to have an official clarification - although majority probably were playing this correctly, there was some confusion and different opinions.
That also means that my victory was legit, and my first three unsuccessful tries on Syzygy had been played on a bit higher difficulty (I was spending one more clue than required)

5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls