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Pandemic Legacy: Season 1» Forums » Rules

Subject: Did we cheat? rss

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Rob Pearce
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player 1's turn and only two cards left in the player deck and two diseases to cure. We went through the discard pile to know what the last two cards were and the current player needs one of them. The current player took her actions and then drew the cards. The player 2 then played the special action card to give the current player two more actions which is a play anytime so as the infect cities step had not happened yet player 1 was still the current player so use the two extra actions to use the card just picked up to cure the penultimate disease. Player 2 then took his turn but cured the last disease before having to draw player cards from the empty stack.

Was it ok or was it cheating to give player 1 the two extra actions after she drew her player cards?

Thanks
 
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David Montgomery
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2 extra actions should have to happen during a player's action step. If the card just said take 2 actions, then I would say that you truly could play it at any time, but since "extra" shows up, it heavily implies that it has to be connected with a turn, before drawing cards.
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Rob Pearce
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mathguy6189 wrote:
2 extra actions should have to happen during a player's action step. If the card just said take 2 actions, then I would say that you truly could play it at any time, but since "extra" shows up, it heavily implies that it has to be connected with a turn, before drawing cards.
it does state play at any time on the card
 
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Annemarie Post
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I'd say it was cheating.

In the rules for 'On the Brink' (where this Event originated), it is specified that 'The player drawing this card may not immediately play it to continue taking actions, as that player is now in the Draw Cards step of his turn'.

In your situation, player 1 was in a similar situation as she had already drawn cards. Therefore, she can't take any actions anymore.
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David Montgomery
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gingerob wrote:
mathguy6189 wrote:
2 extra actions should have to happen during a player's action step. If the card just said take 2 actions, then I would say that you truly could play it at any time, but since "extra" shows up, it heavily implies that it has to be connected with a turn, before drawing cards.
it does state play at any time on the card
Every single event does (to the best of my knowledge) That's a reminder that they don't count as an action.
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Rob Pearce
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Anny48 wrote:
I'd say it was cheating.

In the rules for 'On the Brink' (where this Event originated), it is specified that 'The player drawing this card may not immediately play it to continue taking actions, as that player is now in the Draw Cards step of his turn'.

In your situation, player 1 was in a similar situation as she had already drawn cards. Therefore, she can't take any actions anymore.
I haven't played the original game so didn't know about "On the Brink" did that also say play at any time on it?
 
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Ben Harding
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The bottom of the board, next to the player deck, lists the turn order: Take actions. Draw two cards. Infect.

The way that my wife and I interpret that card, when you draw it during the "Draw two cards" phase, you are no longer eligible to take additional actions. The "play any time" indicates that you can play it even when it's not your turn, to give the OTHER player two additional actions. You can not give yourself two actions during a time when you're not eligible to take them (i.e. during another player's turn, between drawing an epidemic card or the event card in question and performing the infect phase of a turn, etc).
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Annemarie Post
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gingerob wrote:

I haven't played the original game so didn't know about "On the Brink" did that also say play at any time on it?
Yes, it did.
 
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Jim Alexander
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The rules to regular Pandemic (page 7) state: "Event cards can be played at any time, except in between drawing and resolving a card."
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Rob Pearce
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JimABassPlayer wrote:
The rules to regular Pandemic (page 7) state: "Event cards can be played at any time, except in between drawing and resolving a card."
so it is allowed between drawing cards just not drawing and resolving cards so maybe I wasn't cheating!
 
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Annemarie Post
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gingerob wrote:
JimABassPlayer wrote:
The rules to regular Pandemic (page 7) state: "Event cards can be played at any time, except in between drawing and resolving a card."
so it is allowed between drawing cards just not drawing and resolving cards so maybe I wasn't cheating!
Both in the rules from regular Pandemic and those from Legacy, it is stated that your turn exists of three separate phases: 1. Take actions 2. Draw cards 3. Infect cities. Nowhere they state directly that you can't do actions after you draw cards, but I think it's implied.
The rules from on the Brink are clear that you cannot take any more actions with this specific event card after drawing cards from the player deck.

I have to say that it was careless of the publisher not to include the rules about this Event card in the rulebook of Legacy, since not everyone will own On the Brink.

Finally, I do recognize the feeling of losing on your very last turn by some unfortunate card drawing from the player deck. In normal pandemic we accept our loss, but know in our minds 'we would have won this game, if only...' In Pandemic Legacy, I'm more strict and would count this an absolute loss, but if you have already played on or would like to do so, there's no one stopping you.

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Adrian Rodriguez
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I think this is a fuzzy event card. Technically each turn is divided into three phases: actions, draw cards, & infect with the rule clearly stating "After a player is done infecting cities, the player on
their left goes next." That would mean you cannot play the extra actions card after infecting since it wouldn't be your turn anymore.
The question is if the extra actions event card can only be played in the action phase or also between the draw cards & infect phase. In my opinion, OP wasn't cheating, since other event cards can be played after the draw cards step and it is still the player's turn.
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Rob van Dalen
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That's definitely cheating. True, you can play event cards at any time, but in case of this particular event your action phase is already over, so there's no way you can take more actions.
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Jim Alexander
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https://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/2968937#2968937
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Annemarie Post
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JimABassPlayer wrote:
That's a special situation. The Resilient Population event card states explicitly that you can play it between step 2 and 3 of resolving an Epidemic.
 
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Rob Pearce
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I think the key to it is if the actions granted by the card count as part of your action phase or if the actions granted from the card count as the card effect when resolving the card.
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Robert Mair
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gingerob wrote:
I think the key to it is if the actions granted by the card count as part of your action phase or if the actions granted from the card count as the card effect when resolving the card.
I think that because it gives you "extra" actions, they would still have to be used during the actions step.

I'd love for Matt or Rob to weigh in on this because they understand the "spirit of the game" better than any of us.
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Adrian Rodriguez
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rmair62 wrote:
gingerob wrote:
I think the key to it is if the actions granted by the card count as part of your action phase or if the actions granted from the card count as the card effect when resolving the card.
I think that because it gives you "extra" actions, they would still have to be used during the actions step.

I'd love for Matt or Rob to weigh in on this because they understand the "spirit of the game" better than any of us.
I second that, on one hand event cards are supposed to be powerful but this specific event card can lead to many fringe situations like the one OP described.
 
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Rob Pearce
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We only used one of the extra two actions from the card as well. We were basically 1 action away from winning when I came up with this idea when I double checked the card said can be used at anytime.
 
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Jeremy Rhodes
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IMO,

I don't think the way you played it is within the spirit of the rules.

HOWEVER:

It's your game and it's your interpretation of the rules. People have argued all over the place about the spirit of cheating in co-op games. In the end you're only cheating yourself if you think that what you did decreases your satisfaction of the outcome. If you think that you have a hollow victory because you bent the rules in your favor, then you have cheated yourself. But if you feel accomplished by what you did, then good for you, you won.

Coming hear makes me think that you are having trouble with your victory condition and therefore are trying to have us reenforce what you have done as alright. If that's the case then... well you have to work that out with your group.
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Rob Pearce
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dwarvenfriend wrote:
IMO,

I don't think the way you played it is within the spirit of the rules.

HOWEVER:

It's your game and it's your interpretation of the rules. People have argued all over the place about the spirit of cheating in co-op games. In the end you're only cheating yourself if you think that what you did decreases your satisfaction of the outcome. If you think that you have a hollow victory because you bent the rules in your favor, then you have cheated yourself. But if you feel accomplished by what you did, then good for you, you won.

Coming hear makes me think that you are having trouble with your victory condition and therefore are trying to have us reenforce what you have done as alright. If that's the case then... well you have to work that out with your group.
I believe I did not cheat and felt great about winning as it was outside of the box thinking that overcame the obstacle. for ages we were trying to work out a way to win but kept coming up one action short we could get to the research facility but not cure it until I thought of using one of the 5 cards needed for a direct flight to get closer to the research facility, draw the card then for the other player to use the extra actions card he can play at anytime to allow the other player to find a cure.
I just wasn't 100% sure if it was against the rules. it certainly wasn't against any of the written rules in the game but when we were playing we discussed it and but kept coming back to the fact that the card states "play at any time"
 
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Allen Michaels
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Cheat..no. Misplay? Yes.

Sure, you can play that card anytime, but the current player needs to be in their action phase to take actions. You can grant them +2 actions in the Infect phase...great! But they can't utilize them.

So you are correct. You can play it anytime. But if you don't play it in the current player's action phase, they won't be able to use those actions.
 
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Tom Lehmann
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Just because an Event can be played at any time doesn't mean it will have an effect.

Here, you played it after a player's action step for the turn was done, so the current player cannot gain any actions.

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/629828/borrowed-time-card-q...

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1110735/borrowed-time-and-d...
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Jon Weber
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Like others have stated those actions have to be used during an action phase. So you can play the card any time but the actions would only be used during a player action phase, not after.

This thread actually made me wonder about how game end triggers and after reading the rulebook if you meet the objectives at any time the game immediately ends even if you are about to draw cards and none are available.

In any case if you already continued on as if you won I think you are fine. Just dock yourself a few funds to make up for it. No need to worry too much, cheating is such a harsh word.


 
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Rob Pearce
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webs05 wrote:
Like others have stated those actions have to be used during an action phase. So you can play the card any time but the actions would only be used during a player action phase, not after.

This thread actually made me wonder about how game end triggers and after reading the rulebook if you meet the objectives at any time the game immediately ends even if you are about to draw cards and none are available.

In any case if you already continued on as if you won I think you are fine. Just dock yourself a few funds to make up for it. No need to worry too much, cheating is such a harsh word.


I haven't lost any sleep over it. It's poor wording on the card really that it comes down to. It should read can be played during any players actions phase as I took the actions to be part of resolving the card rather than part of the action phase.
 
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