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Subject: Does the errand boy milestone apply to errand boys? rss

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Garry Rice
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Does the errand boy milestone apply to the errand boy? The text states that each buyer gets one additional drink from each source, but as I understand it the sources are the pictures of the drinks on the boards and the errand boys don't use them. I assume wherever the errand boy comes up with their drink also counts as a source?
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Patar Absurdus the Shananigator
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rayuffrahst wrote:
I am curious how the rule book could be confusing on this point, since it mentions Errand Boys 3 times.
I am curious as to the point of that comment.
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rayuffrahst wrote:
Redward wrote:
rayuffrahst wrote:
I am curious how the rule book could be confusing on this point, since it mentions Errand Boys 3 times.
I am curious as to the point of that comment.
The answer is obvious from reading the rules so I cannot understand what prompted the question.
I'd guess that the word source was causing the confusion. As the errand boy doesn't have a source on the map.
But the rest of the text clarifies it.
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Patar Absurdus the Shananigator
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rayuffrahst wrote:
Redward wrote:
rayuffrahst wrote:
I am curious how the rule book could be confusing on this point, since it mentions Errand Boys 3 times.
I am curious as to the point of that comment.
The answer is obvious from reading the rules so I cannot understand what prompted the question.
The question was almost certainly prompted by confusion. Whenever someone posts in the rules section with a question it seems safe to assume that the question is caused by some degree of confusion.

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Redward wrote:
rayuffrahst wrote:
I am curious how the rule book could be confusing on this point, since it mentions Errand Boys 3 times.
I am curious as to the point of that comment.
To be fair, he did answer the question, and I can understand being frustrated by someone who asks a rules question that is clearly and unequivocally answered in the rule book (in the appropriate section of the rules, no less). Personally, I carefully peruse the entire rule book of a game as well as the rules forum itself before asking a rules question, as I don't want to clog up the rules forum with unnecessary threads as that makes it much harder when surfing the forum for an answer.

On the other hand, at least the OP had the decency to make the subject line very specific and clear, so there's that. I can't stand threads that are titled "rules question"

angry

So let's call it a draw and move on I say.
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Patar Absurdus the Shananigator
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verandi wrote:
Redward wrote:
rayuffrahst wrote:
I am curious how the rule book could be confusing on this point, since it mentions Errand Boys 3 times.
I am curious as to the point of that comment.
To be fair, he did answer the question, and I can understand being frustrated by someone who asks a rules question that is clearly and unequivocally answered in the rule book (in the appropriate section of the rules, no less). Personally, I carefully peruse the entire rule book of a game as well as the rules forum itself before asking a rules question, as I don't want to clog up the rules forum with unnecessary threads as that makes it much harder when surfing the forum for an answer.

On the other hand, at least the OP had the decency to make the subject line very specific and clear, so there's that. I can't stand threads that are titled "rules question"

angry

So let's call it a draw and move on I say.
I just get frustrated when people ask a rules question and they get a response along the lines of "didn't you read the rules" or "isn't it obvious." I have yet to see a purposefully obtuse rules question so assuming sincerity seems reasonable.

Also, there are plenty of us that learn really easily from a rule book read through and there are plenty of us that do not. Where is someone supposed to go to answer there question if not the rules forum. Do they have to swear an oath that they read the rule book thoroughly and twice before getting it answered?

/rant over/

You are also totally right about good subject lines in rules questions threads. Those are so freaking vital it is hard to over sell it.
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mfl134
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Redward wrote:
rayuffrahst wrote:
I am curious how the rule book could be confusing on this point, since it mentions Errand Boys 3 times.
I am curious as to the point of that comment.
In general, checking the rules before asking a question would keep unnecessary questions out of the threads.

one reason this is a good thing: make it easier to find questions to rules that need clarification.

Another reason: keep the rules thread small as to not turn off gamers. I know when I see 5+ pages of rules questions (which isn't even that much) I can get turned off by a game assuming that it is going to be a chore to learn the game and keep the rules straight.

separately, occasionally threads like this can be good because somebody who thinks they are playing it correctly won't be checking the rules. Occasionally people see errors in their play when others ask questions that the rules clearly answer.
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Patar Absurdus the Shananigator
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rayuffrahst wrote:


I cannot accept that. Questions like this are more likely caused by sheer laziness.

Since you like to make assumptions about what OP has done, try this assumption: OP only read the card text and not the rule book.

My assumption has the advantage that it leads to more respectful replies to the people that post questions. Worst case I help out someone who was "lazy" and didn't read the rule book without making a sarcastic quip.

That all said, you did answer his question and your statement of confusion was not particularly quippy. I have seen other people be far less helpful and far more unfriendly in their approach.

Sorry if my responses were laden with jackassery. Any jackassery was unintentional to me sure.
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David desJardins
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If the question is clearly answered in the rules then usually I want to know why the question was asked. There are generally three possibilities:

- the asker didn't bother to check the rules
- the asker is not fluent in English
- there is an ambiguity or confusion created by some other part of the rules

Sometimes when I ask I do get an answer of the third type, and this makes me aware of something I didn't know before.
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Patar Absurdus the Shananigator
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What's worse then finding a worm in your apple?

Spoiler (click to reveal)
rayuffrahst wrote:
...threads that have no reason to exist.
 
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Jeroen Doumen
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There are no stupid questions - just stupid answers...

I agree with David above - there's (almost) always a good reason for a question to be asked.
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DaviddesJ wrote:
If the question is clearly answered in the rules then usually I want to know why the question was asked. There are generally three possibilities:

- the asker didn't bother to check the rules
- the asker is not fluent in English
- there is an ambiguity or confusion created by some other part of the rules

Sometimes when I ask I do get an answer of the third type, and this makes me aware of something I didn't know before.
And sometimes they are just having a bad day. They were trying to read the rules while distracted by other things. Or they could be old like me and just miss stuff.

I wish people would give others the benefit of the doubt.
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Steve Carey
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rayuffrahst wrote:
Questions like this are more likely caused by sheer laziness.
Your rudeness is what caused the signal-to-noise ratio in this thread to spin off track.

A little bit of patience and courtesy would have gone a long way.
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rayuffrahst wrote:
jmdsplotter wrote:
There are no stupid questions - just stupid answers...

I agree with David above - there's (almost) always a good reason for a question to be asked.
Which answer or answers in this thread are you referring to as stupid?

And why do you feel that every single possible question that could ever be asked can never be stupid?
Because you don't know. And you'll never know. And to be positive and have a positive effect on other people, you need to assume that they aren't stupid and lazy. You'll actually eventually be happier as well, it's been proven .
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rayuffrahst wrote:
jmdsplotter wrote:
There are no stupid questions - just stupid answers...

I agree with David above - there's (almost) always a good reason for a question to be asked.
Which answer or answers in this thread are you referring to as stupid?

And why do you feel that every single possible question that could ever be asked can never be stupid?
I thought the quote was "there are no stupid questions, only stupid people."

But i agree in the case of asking questions clearly answered in the most obvious place, lazy people is probably the most likely conclusion. But I do agree people have bad days.

It isn't like the question was answered in the post directly above the question, like I have seen in other threads.
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I just want to point out that this entire argument about why the OP asked the question is not including the person who asked the question. Maybe they are the most knowledgeable about why they asked the question?
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DaviddesJ wrote:
I just want to point out that this entire argument about why the OP asked the question is not including the person who asked the question. Maybe they are the most knowledgeable about why they asked the question?
I'm asking the question of "is there a line where the suspension of belief is too much to give the benefit of the doubt?"

but obviously the person who asked can answer the question the best.
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Bob D
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rayuffrahst wrote:
jmdsplotter wrote:
There are no stupid questions - just stupid answers...

I agree with David above - there's (almost) always a good reason for a question to be asked.
Which answer or answers in this thread are you referring to as stupid?

And why do you feel that every single possible question that could ever be asked can never be stupid?
Why do you feel the need to belabor the thread? Why can't we all just get along? Why am I asking rhetorical, leading questions?

Certain things that are obvious are so only in hindsight and everybody is different. I misunderstood the Errand Boy card for the first two introductory games before I realized he could get a drink even if there was no drink depot on the tile (which makes perfect sense...now). This is just a (fantastic) game.

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bobbyrayiam wrote:
rayuffrahst wrote:
jmdsplotter wrote:
There are no stupid questions - just stupid answers...

I agree with David above - there's (almost) always a good reason for a question to be asked.
Which answer or answers in this thread are you referring to as stupid?

And why do you feel that every single possible question that could ever be asked can never be stupid?
Why do you feel the need to belabor the thread? Why can't we all just get along? Why am I asking rhetorical, leading questions?

Certain things that are obvious are so only in hindsight and everybody is different. I misunderstood the Errand Boy card for the first two introductory games before I realized he could get a drink even if there was no drink depot on the tile (which makes perfect sense...now). This is just a (fantastic) game.

The question that curiosity asks is why did you misunderstand? Were the rules unclear? Did somebody teach it wrong? Did somebody skim the rules and make assumptions?

obviously there are a lot of moving parts, and getting somebody wrong can easily happen. But if you had something wrong (or felt a need to ask a question about it), wouldn't checking the appropriate part of the rules be step 1?
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Redward wrote:
What's worse then finding a worm in your apple?

Finding half of a worm in the apple you just took a bite of.
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Patar Absurdus the Shananigator
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dr_divot wrote:
Redward wrote:
What's worse then finding a worm in your apple?

Finding half of a worm in the apple you just took a bite of.
That is the more traditional answer. Some other perspectives can be interesting to consider as well: http://anti-joke.com
 
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Re: Does the errand boy milestone apply to errand bo
DaviddesJ wrote:
I just want to point out that this entire argument about why the OP asked the question is not including the person who asked the question. Maybe they are the most knowledgeable about why they asked the question?
It's unimportant why they asked the question. They don't owe us an explanation. They have the right to ask questions that are answered in the rules as long as they otherwise follow the Community Rules.
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Patar Absurdus the Shananigator
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jschlickbernd wrote:
DaviddesJ wrote:
I just want to point out that this entire argument about why the OP asked the question is not including the person who asked the question. Maybe they are the most knowledgeable about why they asked the question?
It's unimportant why they asked the question. They don't owe us an explanation. They have the right to ask questions that are answered in the rules as long as they otherwise follow the Community Rules.
You said what I was trying to say so much more concisely.
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jschlickbernd wrote:
It's unimportant why they asked the question. They don't owe us an explanation. They have the right to ask questions that are answered in the rules as long as they otherwise follow the Community Rules.
It's got to be more interesting to know why they asked the question than for six different people to argue about whether they should have asked the question without even knowing why they asked the question.

I didn't really think this was a question of 'rights'. People have the 'right' to do all sorts of random things. People have the 'right' to launch a multi-page thread speculating on why someone asked a question and whether their reasons were good enough. That doesn't make it all that interesting or useful.
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Bob D
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mfl134 wrote:

The question that curiosity asks is why did you misunderstand? Were the rules unclear? Did somebody teach it wrong? Did somebody skim the rules and make assumptions?

obviously there are a lot of moving parts, and getting somebody wrong can easily happen. But if you had something wrong (or felt a need to ask a question about it), wouldn't checking the appropriate part of the rules be step 1?
Well, in my particular case, I was reading two rule books back-to-back (I received The Gallerist and Food Chain Magnate within days of one another) and got it in my head that all drinks retrieval cards were based on the depots. Once you get something in your head and you think you understand it, you are unlikely to question it until something arises that makes you wonder if you've got the rule right. Again, in my case, I came across something on BGG that made me realize I had misunderstood the text on the card (which, in hindsight, is clear as day).

Now, yes, I didn't post a rules question. The first thing I did was go back, check the rules, and realize I had made a mistake. Problem solved. But if I HAD, it would be nice to be corrected with some measure of charity. While no one is obligated to be kind and can be as rude and condescending as they please, that largely services no one but the person who feels the need to exert their false sense of superiority via a message board about games. The thread has already been created so the genie isn't going back in the bottle. The OP can get their question answered (and perhaps learn a few things along the way) either with kindness or jackassery. But the post isn't going to disappear so it's up to the community to choose how it wants to respond.
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