Recommend
4 
 Thumb up
 Hide
7 Posts

Empire of the Sun» Forums » Rules

Subject: Newbie question about Reactions rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Miguel Angel Gil
Spain
Gijon
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hello!

I'm on my first game and have a question regarding reactions. The image bellow show the context of my doubts:



So JP player plays Col. Tsugi and invades Medan (through AA), because is a Surprise event, the only way to change that is by playing a reaction card, in that case:

• Can the SEAC HQ be activated to send the Exester CA to the battle?
• If yes, the AA is cancelled and (28th army) eliminated for the step loss?
• Dutch unit is OOS, but JP ZOI donesn't matter for the Naval help, right?

Thanks a lot for the answers! : )

Edit: Another doubt had arise and I wish to add it here too : )

In the same card as before, there are one JP ground unit (reduced) moving to attack Tjilatjap and another ground unit (also reduced) make the attack by AA. On Tjilatjap there are a Dutch unit and Dutch plane OOS:

• Can de Dutch plane inflich hits on the ground units (I mean, becasue there are two steps, one can be eliminated? or because they are both reduced, no one can be eliminated)?
• Because is Surprisee attack, the Air battle aiming for the critical is before the ground combat anyways, right?

Thanks again!
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
César Moreno
Spain
Castellon
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I am never 100% sure with EotS but i'll try my best:

only if allied player uses a reaction card:
* SEAC HQ can be activated...
* ...and CA Exeter can be sent to the battle hex. In that case 9.32 applies and the 28th japanese army wouldn't take part in combat.

* Japanese ZOI or dutch unit supply status has no effect on this combat.


Tjilatjap:
* I think japanese ground unit can't AA Tjilatjap if there is a Dutch air unit there exerting un-neutralized ZOI.
* If EZOI is neutralized and japanese ground unit performs AA, all but the last ground step could be eliminated in air-naval combat.
* Air-naval battles are always resolved before ground combats, whatever the intel status may be.

Suerte en tu partida, y cuéntanos luego en labsk!
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ferro Ostil
United States
New York City
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
PpalP wrote:
Hello!

I'm on my first game and have a question regarding reactions. The image bellow show the context of my doubts:



So JP player plays Col. Tsugi and invades Medan (through AA), because is a Surprise event, the only way to change that is by playing a reaction card, in that case:

• Can the SEAC HQ be activated to send the Exester CA to the battle?
• If yes, the AA is cancelled and (28th army) eliminated for the step loss?
• Dutch unit is OOS, but JP ZOI donesn't matter for the Naval help, right?

Thanks a lot for the answers! : )

Edit: Another doubt had arise and I wish to add it here too : )

In the same card as before, there are one JP ground unit (reduced) moving to attack Tjilatjap and another ground unit (also reduced) make the attack by AA. On Tjilatjap there are a Dutch unit and Dutch plane OOS:

· Can de Dutch plane inflich hits on the ground units (I mean, becasue there are two steps, one can be aliminated? or because they are both reduced, no one can be eliminated)?
• Because is Surprisee attack, the Air battle aiming for the critical is before the ground combat anyways, right?

Thanks again!
1. The battle hex must be in range of an in-supply HQ, here SEAC - that trace is not blocked by anything (including unneutralized AZOIs), so SEAC can activate the CA Exeter, because it can reach (and must reach) the battle hex. (7.26)
2. Yes, the AA fails if a Reaction naval unit is in the hex and you don't have a naval unit yourself there, and the unit using AA is turned back and loses a step (8.45.B "important")
3. The Japanese unneutralized ZOI does not affect the CA Exeter's movement ("Naval units can normally enter and move through un-neutralized opposing ZOI, but may not do so if they are moving with a ground unit conducting amphibious assault or are conducting strategic na- val movement." 8.21), and the battle hex is a legal destination (8.45; see also 8.21). Also note that supply doesn't matter for battle resolution (9.14).

Second set of questions:
1. The dutch air can participate in the battle because it doesn't need to be activated since it is in the battle hex (Tjilatjap). Air-Naval battle occurs before ground battle, and since the Japanese have no air-naval units in the battle, the Dutch air can inflict a hit. See 9.2.F.5 "If a player was the only side with air and/or naval units in the air naval battle, then hits may be applied to any opposing ground units in the hex." However, the last Japanese ground step could not be eliminated (not that the Dutch air can generate 2 hits in this example).
2. I am not sure I get this question - air/naval always happens before ground combat. Surprise only matters for air/naval where hits are applied first by the Offensives Player if there is surprise, simultaneously if it was intercept.

A couple points to note here: The Dutch air (7-9-2) can only hit a typical reduced Japanese army unit (9-12) on a critical, as you note. For the following ground battle, with the Dutch J Division, remember that the Dutch will get +3 because one of the Japanese units used AA (it's better not to combine ground movement with AA if it can be avoided). Also, the unit entering by AA will have its defensive strength halved, meaning that the Dutch can take out the reduced Japanese AA unit. (Ground battle is always simultaneous.)

Quote:
Tjilatjap:
* I think japanese ground unit can't AA Tjilatjap if there is a Dutch air unit there exerting un-neutralized ZOI.
Right - I was assuming that the Dutch ZOI was neutralized, probably by a carrier unit in Batavia or Soerabaja.
9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Francisco Colmenares
Canada
Woodbridge
Ontario
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The Dutch air is OOS per the original post, So the AA to Tjilatjap can occur with no problems.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Antero Kuusi
Finland
Helsinki
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I don't think the second example is correctly answered yet. If I understood it right, the combat includes two Japanese armies, one of which attacked by land and one by AA and no Japanese air and naval (since it is Tsuji). Allies have OOS Dutch Air in the hex and the Dutch division.

Now, on the first point, the AA is legal as Dutch Air is OOS. However, it makes no sense to do due to what will happen in the battle resolution. First, there will be an A/N battle to which only the Dutch Air takes part (air unit in battle hex will take part even if not activated). There are no attacking A/N units in battle, so the hits are assigned to the Japanese ground units. Since the AAing unit has its defense halved, a 1x result will eliminate it even without a critical. Then after this the winner of the A/N battle is determined. By default, it will be Allies. This win means that if the AAing unit survived, it must turn back and the unit advancing over ground will attack alone (ground advance is not affected by who wins the A/N battle).

So, the morale of this situation is don't try to AA against hex with an air unit without your own air. It will fail always.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ferro Ostil
United States
New York City
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I see the point about turning back the AA unit after A/N (9.32).

But I am not sure that AA defensive strength is halved in this case. That rule is listed under ground combat procedure 9.4.B.5, and I didn't think it applied to A/N without Offensives A/N units present, but only to ground combat. Am I missing something?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Antero Kuusi
Finland
Helsinki
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Hmm, perhaps not. The question is really academic anyway as the invasion is doomed to fail, but if for some reason that happens looks like the defense is not halved yet at that point.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls