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Subject: Scorpion 4 Attack Squadron First Look rss

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Kurt Descheemaeker
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http://www.startrek.com/article/first-look-scorpion-4-attack...
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Look fun.

Fighters: Only 4 attack dice when the squadron starts is disappointing but they get shields like the Feds do. Blank reroll on a come about is ok but unusually for a nippy fighter one of the flips is a red move. with low attacks and plenty of shots needed to finish them off we could just see enemies ignoring them a lot (which may not be a bad thing). 3 Stars out of 5.

Cloaked Fighters: With no starting agility and hampering your mediocre speed even further I don't think this is worth it. Later in the game after a few damage has been taken it could save you victory points I suppose. You may find yourself unable to cloak and waiting for the enemy to do 1 damage to your squadron so you can loose the tile and get the shield back to then disable it and activate the cloak. 2 stars.

Hidden Formation. Spending points on Cloak is pricy but this gets very expensive to get the sensor echo. 1 star.

Covering Fire: 4 Defence on a fresh squadron is not impossible to burn through and if cloaked it is too pricy. 2 stars.

Focused Strike: Not for 5 points mate. 1 star.

Torpedo Attack: Only useful later in the game when you have taken damage. I hope the squadron has a rear firing arc as I can't quite tell from the photo. 1 star.

Reconnaissance: Well at least it's cheap but scanning rather than target locking doesn't make sense usually, but on occasion a TL is impossible and you don't need to evade. 2 stars.

Thrusters: You can get a green forward 3 or a green bank 2. For a 3 point discard? 1 star.

Support Ship: By the time the squadron gets down to this level of damage it has a poor attack and 4 points to save it another round is extravagant. 1 star.


Overall fighters are fine and I will be getting the pack. However with a low threat to high damage sponge ratio many opponents will not attack them unless there are no other targets in range. Therefore all defensive upgrades are almost worthless on a unit that will often be ignored anyway and I've never been that impressed with most squadron upgrades for their costs. Like all fighters keep them cheap and act aggressively with them.





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Xander Fulton
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LOL, I'd link the 'WizKids hates Romulans' thread, again, but at this point it's more obvious they just hate everyone BUT the Federation.

(Particularly Romulans, though - my gods this expansion sucks balls. I think this one is an even bigger stinker for uselessness than the Talvath!)
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Kevin Denney
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may be lower attach but THEY CAN CLOAK!!!!!!!! 24 points to have cloaked attack squadrons? im happy!
 
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Xander Fulton
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Seiyoku27 wrote:
may be lower attach but THEY CAN CLOAK!!!!!!!! 24 points to have cloaked attack squadrons? im happy!
Only if you run the generic squadron.

So that 24 points gets you a cloaked fighter squadron, sure, but one limited to speed-1 (which on this dial is only forward-1, or bank-1 either direction), cannot sensor echo (that's a separate, 5-point upgrade), and has a primary attack of '3' (only the named squadron starts at '4').
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Thomas Landy
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WK has officially run out of imagination/ideas.
 
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Justin Hare
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Given Romulans are debatably #2 right now behind Fed, a superpowered set of fighters isn't needed.

I do think a higher starting PAV would have been more reasonable. 5 would have been okay.

The upgrades are meh to near useless, but look at the other squadron packs. You only ever see 1-2 of those upgrades ever used. Fed get the disable to gain BS upgrade and Dom gets the flanking attack and galor class phaser banks.

Not a stellar expansion, but still not as dissapointing as the Rotarran.
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rezot tam
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If I recall, the Scorpion fighters were pretty tiny-- enough to fly down a hallway. Hidekis on the other hand were about the size of the Defiant. Obviously Trek's not big on consistency in scale (isn't the Fed fighter the same model as a Maquis raider?), but it does make sense that it would have a relatively low attack value.

I think the cloaking could guarantee they get ignored as a target while they help chip away at priority targets. The biggest bummer to me is that there isn't a 1 come about to synergize with their ability.

On the Rotarran, has anyone thought that maybe the design team was trying to ape X-Wing's new SLAM action? Again, had they tried to make it synergize with something at all it could have been worth something but in Attack Wing it's just not worth it to give up the opportunity to do any damage.
 
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rezot tam
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Another quick thought: since in the movie they're shown in their hangar it would've been cool if they could have docked like shuttles. No upgrade transferring but you could spit out a brand new combatant, albeit with somewhat lower firepower, late game.
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Sodoff Baldrick
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I must say I am a little disappointed. The low primary is one I can't understand. I don't see Scorpions becoming big in competitive play, but for casual they will be fun. I play some large scale, 400+ point games, these will be fun in an ongoing Romulan vs Fed campaign we have going on. I will probably end up getting 3.

I almost thing you have to take the Torpedo Attack upgrade to make these usable.


2 strange things I notice about this release.

1)It looks like the generic fighters are not in the pic at the bottom, make me wonder how many upgraded it can take.

2)This is the 2nd time they have put something like this in a recent release,

"So with all this power at their fingertips, what do Attack Squadrons fear? Answer: Cloaked Mines. Scorpion 4 has this problem solved with the help of the Reconnaissance Squadron Upgrade."


"Adding the Scan Action to your choice of possible actions will help greatly when trying to hit a cloaked ship or when you run into cloaked mines. "

The STAW articles for Startrek.com are written by WK, so it makes me wonder if there is something headed to the FAQ that a scan token and not a scan action can be used against cloaked mines.
 
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Dave C
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Mr S Baldrick wrote:
The STAW articles for Startrek.com are written by WK, so it makes me wonder if there is something headed to the FAQ that a scan token and not a scan action can be used against cloaked mines.
While I normally find myself giving WK the benefit of the doubt, my suspicion in this case is that it's much more likely a mis-communication between whoever's writing the articles and the design team/WORF. (Not that I'd be upset if we got a ruling that weakened cloaked mines a little, but I need more evidence than preview articles which [currently] contradict long-established rulings and have not thus far been recognized as authoritative rules guidance.)
 
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Xander Fulton
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Passby wrote:
Fighters: Only 4 attack dice when the squadron starts is disappointing but they get shields like the Feds do. Blank reroll on a come about is ok but unusually for a nippy fighter one of the flips is a red move. with low attacks and plenty of shots needed to finish them off we could just see enemies ignoring them a lot (which may not be a bad thing). 3 Stars out of 5.
Keep in mind that only the named fighter starts at '4' attack. The generic (presuming there is one, the pic doesn't show that card after all) would be '3' - so you are paying 24 points for the '4' attack. Kinda spendy...

Passby wrote:
Hidden Formation. Spending points on Cloak is pricy but this gets very expensive to get the sensor echo. 1 star.
And don't forget that it's only a range-1 sensor echo. Given you are going to be cloaked to us it, meaning your speed is limited to '1' with only a range-1 sensor echo... you've already spent 9 points and are just not moving very far on the map. 0 stars?

Passby wrote:
Covering Fire: 4 Defence on a fresh squadron is not impossible to burn through and if cloaked it is too pricy. 2 stars.
Also: we've got two other copies of this upgrade already, so... meh.

Passby wrote:
Support Ship: By the time the squadron gets down to this level of damage it has a poor attack and 4 points to save it another round is extravagant. 1 star.
...annnnd, we've also got two of these already, too. So... double meh.
 
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Gavin Seery
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rezot tam wrote:
If I recall, the Scorpion fighters were pretty tiny-- enough to fly down a hallway. Hidekis on the other hand were about the size of the Defiant. Obviously Trek's not big on consistency in scale (isn't the Fed fighter the same model as a Maquis raider?), but it does make sense that it would have a relatively low attack value.
Nice attempt at rationalising it but for that to work it should follow that they would also have 1 turns which the bigger fighters do
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Evan
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dprcooke wrote:
Mr S Baldrick wrote:
The STAW articles for Startrek.com are written by WK, so it makes me wonder if there is something headed to the FAQ that a scan token and not a scan action can be used against cloaked mines.
While I normally find myself giving WK the benefit of the doubt, my suspicion in this case is that it's much more likely a mis-communication between whoever's writing the articles and the design team/WORF. (Not that I'd be upset if we got a ruling that weakened cloaked mines a little, but I need more evidence than preview articles which [currently] contradict long-established rulings and have not thus far been recognized as authoritative rules guidance.)
Agreed. I wouldn't mind such a change either, but I think the previews are much more likely to be written by some intern or marketing person who isn't 100% up on all the rulings than by someone with secret knowledge.


The fighters are okay; they did take a pretty big PAV hit and the only thing they have to show for it is the ability to carry a cloak (which, it should be said, provides really good defense against those new weapons that are widely considered to herald the end of the Era of Fighters).

But what surprises me is how many complaints I'm also seeing about the upgrades. Torpedo Attack works well with the ship ability and brings its average attack value back into line with the other fighters'. It's better, in fact, since there's now less value to your opponent in knocking away those tokens. Focused Strike is a little expensive, but don't underestimate it. That's not just a very likely Direct Hit; you've got a decent shot at a Stunned Helmsman, Injured Captain, or similarly crippling blow. The cloak upgrades are self-explanatory. Support Ship may not be exciting, but it's always welcome (plus it's a better investment here than on the other fighters, since the last Scorpion's stats haven't been reduced as much. I'd actually be pretty annoyed if this had been the first squadron that had to go our of faction for it). Reconnaissance...yeah, okay, but it's only two points. It's sure as hell better than Photo Lock-On.
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Gavin Seery
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I've had time to think about them and compare to other fighters and overall they pay the same points as Fed fighters for 2 less attack dice and 1 less captain skill.
They lack the 1 turn and their 3 turn is red. Poorer moves than Feds, probably on a par with hidekis.
To sensor echo will cost you 9 points!
Cover fire on these is the same price as the other fighters even though you'll get 2 less dice at first.
The torpedo can be used through a rear arc that the fighter doesn't possess, it'd be better on hidekis! The torpedo should be range 2-3 to make it worthwhile.
Reconnaissance scan token will not affect cloaked mines with the rules as they currently stand.
Overall I'm saying 2 out of 5
 
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Ellis Norris
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what grates my nerves about the torpedoes is that they LITERALLY add no value to the ship. they are the same range and attack power as the primary, and don't have any of the modifiers torps usually have! man this pack hurts soo much. i do have to look at faction mixing, to see if that helps with them, but as they stand, i am seriously disappoint.
 
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Sodoff Baldrick
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I can't help but feeling that the Scorpions are victim to "oh we made fighters way too good, this is how they should be".
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Matt Dodd
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If all fighters had been like this, fighters would've been perfectly fine anti-Borg/alpha-strike tech and I wouldn't have minded them nearly so much. Since the other fighters are so much better that we needed (and are getting) anti-fighter tech, these are garbage. More the fool me for pre-ordering them before the spoiler. Should've remembered that only Federation ships are worth pre-ordering sight unseen.
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Sodoff Baldrick
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XanderF wrote:
Keep in mind that only the named fighter starts at '4' attack. The generic (presuming there is one, the pic doesn't show that card after all) would be '3' - so you are paying 24 points for the '4' attack. Kinda spendy...
I'm gonna try to be optimistic. We haven't seen the card for the generic yet. Maybe the Romulan fighter shtick will be that the generics get 5 tokens.
 
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Larry DeStefano
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Mr S Baldrick wrote:
I can't help but feeling that the Scorpions are victim to "oh we made fighters way too good, this is how they should be".
Totally agree on that point.
 
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Xander Fulton
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Mr S Baldrick wrote:
XanderF wrote:
Keep in mind that only the named fighter starts at '4' attack. The generic (presuming there is one, the pic doesn't show that card after all) would be '3' - so you are paying 24 points for the '4' attack. Kinda spendy...
I'm gonna try to be optimistic. We haven't seen the card for the generic yet. Maybe the Romulan fighter shtick will be that the generics get 5 tokens.
Well, it's not like that's the pessimistic assumption.

The pessimistic assumption would be to note that there IS NO generic card posted. Which...hasn't happened before, that I can recall.

The 'Romulan fighter shtick' might be that they don't have a generic fighter...
 
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Gavin Seery
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Mr S Baldrick wrote:
XanderF wrote:
Keep in mind that only the named fighter starts at '4' attack. The generic (presuming there is one, the pic doesn't show that card after all) would be '3' - so you are paying 24 points for the '4' attack. Kinda spendy...
I'm gonna try to be optimistic. We haven't seen the card for the generic yet. Maybe the Romulan fighter shtick will be that the generics get 5 tokens.
I admire your optimism Baldrick but ain't gonna happen
 
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Gavin Seery
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XanderF wrote:
Mr S Baldrick wrote:
XanderF wrote:
Keep in mind that only the named fighter starts at '4' attack. The generic (presuming there is one, the pic doesn't show that card after all) would be '3' - so you are paying 24 points for the '4' attack. Kinda spendy...
I'm gonna try to be optimistic. We haven't seen the card for the generic yet. Maybe the Romulan fighter shtick will be that the generics get 5 tokens.
Well, it's not like that's the pessimistic assumption.

The pessimistic assumption would be to note that there IS NO generic card posted. Which...hasn't happened before, that I can recall.

The 'Romulan fighter shtick' might be that they don't have a generic fighter...
They show two "Start" tokens, and you can just make out the text that the second is scorpion attack squadron
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Sodoff Baldrick
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emperorpenguin wrote:
Mr S Baldrick wrote:
XanderF wrote:
Keep in mind that only the named fighter starts at '4' attack. The generic (presuming there is one, the pic doesn't show that card after all) would be '3' - so you are paying 24 points for the '4' attack. Kinda spendy...
I'm gonna try to be optimistic. We haven't seen the card for the generic yet. Maybe the Romulan fighter shtick will be that the generics get 5 tokens.
I admire your optimism Baldrick but ain't gonna happen
I am trying very hard to stay positive, but it is becoming more difficult wave by wave.
 
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Gavin Seery
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Has been two bad waves to be a Romulan alright
 
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