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Subject: Which is the better role? ( Before July Spoilers) rss

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Adrian Rodriguez
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So the surprise in June was the Soldier, which compared to the Colonel, I can't find that really much of a difference. Let's get to the specifics,

The Colonel can cure at the cost of 6-7 cards depending if a certain positive mutation is present while the soldier simply can't, however I find it very impractical to cure with the Colonel.

The Colonel can move freely through roadblocks, the soldier can't.
However to put roadbloacks and use the colonel's remove faded figure ability, you have to already have a military base in your region. Which makes the Colonel's abilities very depending on having bases to get the most out of him.

The Colonel can remove one faded figure, the soldier can't but through the use of equipment cards (spending grenade belt, using an action to retrieve grenade belt, repeat) he can basically acquire this ability without needing a military base.

The soldier can't get scarred by a faded figure, the Colonel can, which I think is a huge difference if the Colonel is going to be in the fray removing figures and setting up roadblocks.

In conclusion, I really can't find the niche of the Colonel. Thoughts?
 
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TJ
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The Soldier was my favorite character in the game, the Colonel was one of my least favorite.
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Charles Washington
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Personally, I think roadblocks are bad strategically. THey will help you only if things are already FUBAR. Quarantine is much better.

We have the soldier and Quarantine Agent as co-workers. They really wreck shop in the Middle East, where our CoDa is located.
 
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We just used the operations expert to fly in to a faded city, build a base, roadblock the whole thing off and fly out. We never once used the Colonel or the Soldier to deal with the faded. Built permanent roadblocks and COdA-403 was pretty much under control after that.

Quarantines are ok, but they go away and cost more actions to rebuild. Roadblocks you only need to build once and you can make them permanent.

If you are worried about moving in a out of a city through roadblocks, just use the Operations Expert to move around and build bases. Then, anyone with military clearance can move in and out without problems.
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Adrian Rodriguez
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cableinggg wrote:
We just used the operations expert to fly in to a faded city, build a base, roadblock the whole thing off and fly out. We never once used the Colonel or the Soldier to deal with the faded. Built permanent roadblocks and COdA-403 was pretty much under control after that.

Quarantines are ok, but they go away and cost more actions to rebuild. Roadblocks you only need to build once and you can make them permanent.

If you are worried about moving in a out of a city through roadblocks, just use the Operations Expert to move around and build bases. Then, anyone with military clearance can move in and out without problems.
While I agree on the coronel, I think the soldier's ability to not get scarred is a powerful one, he can go around building roadblocks, setting up quarantines, cleaning up faded, all while don't caring if he ends the turn with an infected. Flying in and out costs precious actions.
 
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Charles Washington
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Everyone does not have military clearance for a while, besides.

Quarantine Agent can put out 4 a turn from a military base with the right upgrade, and it is an Objective for a while.
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croloris wrote:
Everyone does not have military clearance for a while, besides.

Quarantine Agent can put out 4 a turn from a military base with the right upgrade, and it is an Objective for a while.
We ignored that Quarantine Objective the entire play through. When the cities are roadblocked, you really don't need to go back to those areas unless an objective asks for it. Even if the city is collapsing, you can still shuttle by military base.

Funny thing is, we used that "right upgrade" on the Operations Expert as well (since he can build military bases everywhere).
 
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Ken Jenkins
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cableinggg wrote:
croloris wrote:
Everyone does not have military clearance for a while, besides.

Quarantine Agent can put out 4 a turn from a military base with the right upgrade, and it is an Objective for a while.
We ignored that Quarantine Objective the entire play through. When the cities are roadblocked, you really don't need to go back to those areas unless an objective asks for it. Even if the city is collapsing, you can still shuttle by military base.

Funny thing is, we used that "right upgrade" on the Operations Expert as well (since he can build military bases everywhere).
Same here. Building bases allowed us to upgrade them to permanence at game end, improving our mobility and making each subsequent game easier (we're up to 4-5 of 6 built for permanence) When the Ops Expert can fly in, build, quarantine 3 (the max connections to faded cities in most Blue cities, our CODA color), it makes things very smooth.

As to OP's question, I think the Soldier is better as long as he has the choice to make a grenades card at the very beginning of the game. So, he's great for 2 games, but then he's very unpredictable. The Colonel can kill Faded without equipment, and if it comes back up, that's just gravy.


 
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Adrian Rodriguez
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Kenmonster wrote:

Same here. Building bases allowed us to upgrade them to permanence at game end, improving our mobility and making each subsequent game easier (we're up to 4-5 of 6 built for permanence) When the Ops Expert can fly in, build, quarantine 3 (the max connections to faded cities in most Blue cities, our CODA color), it makes things very smooth.

As to OP's question, I think the Soldier is better as long as he has the choice to make a grenades card at the very beginning of the game. So, he's great for 2 games, but then he's very unpredictable. The Colonel can kill Faded without equipment, and if it comes back up, that's just gravy.
I hadn't really thought that to use the grenade card, you first have to draw it in subsequent games. That makes the soldier more reliable on drawing that grenade belt to be useful.

So then, the popular opinion seems to be in line with what I thought, that the Colonel isn't that useful compared to other roles. Shame that it's a very cool role name.
 
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Ken Jenkins
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Sorry, I was not clear enough.
I suspect the soldier is much like the contingency planner. If you know you're going to get the grenade card, eg, one of those two stickers is still available to be applied, then he is better than the Colonel b/c he can stay in Faded cities. But once you don't have that option, his viability drops tremendously.

The Colonel is more fragile, but more reliable. He can always take out Ghouls, but he needs backup to make sure he isn't in a Faded city when his turn starts. I've played the Dispatcher in every single game of our campaign, and he's been the MVP more than once. In June, we were down to the bottom of the deck. The OpsEx's turn was just before mine, and he built the second to last Military Base, ending his turn in Lagos with the Lagos card. I popped over to him and built the last base for the win. More importantly, I've pulled every character out of the Hot Zone, sometimes multiple characters on my turn. So, with the Dispatcher, the Colonel becomes way more effective. He clears and roadblocks, I get him back to the safety of a military base outside the Faded Zone.

So, Soldier > Colonel for two games. Then the Colonel is more reliable, and someone else can use the Grenades, if and when they come up.

 
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Reilly Miller

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One thing to note - unless you've used the "dog tags" upgrade, the dispatcher cannot command other pawns to use military shuttle flights. His ability is specifically to move other pawns *as if they were himself* and so if he's not military, the people he's "dispatching" can't take those shuttles.
 
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Adrian Rodriguez
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Kenmonster wrote:
Sorry, I was not clear enough.
I suspect the soldier is much like the contingency planner. If you know you're going to get the grenade card, eg, one of those two stickers is still available to be applied, then he is better than the Colonel b/c he can stay in Faded cities. But once you don't have that option, his viability drops tremendously.

The Colonel is more fragile, but more reliable. He can always take out Ghouls, but he needs backup to make sure he isn't in a Faded city when his turn starts. I've played the Dispatcher in every single game of our campaign, and he's been the MVP more than once. In June, we were down to the bottom of the deck. The OpsEx's turn was just before mine, and he built the second to last Military Base, ending his turn in Lagos with the Lagos card. I popped over to him and built the last base for the win. More importantly, I've pulled every character out of the Hot Zone, sometimes multiple characters on my turn. So, with the Dispatcher, the Colonel becomes way more effective. He clears and roadblocks, I get him back to the safety of a military base outside the Faded Zone.

So, Soldier > Colonel for two games. Then the Colonel is more reliable, and someone else can use the Grenades, if and when they come up.

Since my OP I've used the colonel one more time, he has won the "if you choose it we will lose" reputation with my friends. On second thought, the thing that makes him less useful is his roadblock ability, which has almost zero utility. I haven't played a game when roadblocking really made a difference. I've used the soldier twice and while not having grenades hurts his performance, a very nice upgrade down the road
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Paramilitary escort
makes him the best at handling the faded.
 
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Clive Jones

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We haven't used the Colonel yet, but pounced on the Soldier instantly. Sure, some time he might have trouble laying his hands on a grenade, but we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

Meanwhile, we're not feeling the love for the Operations Expert. We simply don't need enough structures for his first ability to be useful (lots are permanent) and his second ability isn't great, either.

We've tried playing him twice, once choosing him over the Dispatcher, once over the Quarantine Specialist. Those were our two losses so far. We'll want a compelling reason before we bring him out again.
 
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Voodoo Chile
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We are just about to start July. So far the Quarantine Specialist has been the MVP, for reasons I probably don't need to explain to you guys. Soldier and Colonel are new additions for us, but they don't appeal at all. We are playing a 2 player game, and both of them put the entire burden of curing diseases on the other player. That's just too much to ask. To the people who do like these characters, I assume you must be playing a 3 or 4 player game?

I personally love the Researcher. On turn 1, you can be very aggressive about trading cards that can perhaps cut the length of the game in half. I loved the Researcher in regular Pandemic, but she's even stronger here since her ability is now a two-way street. My gf doesn't quite believe me about this, because it's kind of hard to see what effect the Researcher has had on the game.

Our other favourite is the Generalist. I was a big fan in regular Pandemic, and my argument was that you can almost always find a good thing to do with that 5th action. With other characters, their special ability may not be relevant every turn. So far, we have souped up theGeneralist with the pilot ability and she has been our heavy lifter.

Most of our games are played with the Quarantine Specialist and Generalist, but if we get good cards on setup then I can convince my girlfriend to play Quarantine Specialist and Researcher.

My general strategy in Pandemic (regular or legacy) is to win before things get out of control. That's why I like characters that can get cures done quickly (Researcher, Scientist, Dispatcher). It's an aggressive strategy that I think pays off more often than not.
 
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Martin R. Krause
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Spoiler (click to reveal)
The solidier is indeed the more valuable role. And with the paramilitary escort, he becomes a true John Rambo. The paramilitary escort is a special ability that removes a faded figure every time you leave a city. It is so overpowered that it will be picked as an end game bonus the moment it is available (which is in August, I think). The soldier is the most logical choice to receive the bonus.

The game designer placed this combination deliberately, because later the military person carrying this special ability will be the traitor and lost for the group as a character. I guess in 90% of the games, it will be the soldier that becomes the traitor (that also fits the story) and the colonel becomes his replacement.
 
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Chris Broggi
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Torquato wrote:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
The solidier is indeed the more valuable role. And with the paramilitary escort, he becomes a true John Rambo. The paramilitary escort is a special ability that removes a faded figure every time you leave a city. It is so overpowered that it will be picked as an end game bonus the moment it is available (which is in August, I think). The soldier is the most logical choice to receive the bonus.

The game designer placed this combination deliberately, because later the military person carrying this special ability will be the traitor and lost for the group as a character. I guess in 90% of the games, it will be the soldier that becomes the traitor (that also fits the story) and the colonel becomes his replacement.
Please indicate the months you are spoiling. The header just says "before July spoilers".
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Robert Stewart
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voodoochile78 wrote:
I loved the Researcher in regular Pandemic, but she's even stronger here since her ability is now a two-way street.
The Researcher's ability in my copy of base Pandemic is exactly the same as in my copy of Pandemic Legacy (ignoring any stickers or writing), though the wording is slightly different - during a share knowledge action that moves a card from the Researcher's hand to another player's hand, the city card need not match the city they're in. Moving cards the other way, only cards from the city they're in can be passed to the Researcher, just like any other character.
 
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David Goodnuff
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voodoochile78 wrote:
...
Our other favourite is the Generalist. I was a big fan in regular Pandemic, and my argument was that you can almost always find a good thing to do with that 5th action. With other characters, their special ability may not be relevant every turn. ...
That's the wrong way to look at it. You want to make some form of estimate of actions saved by other character abilities over the course of the game. The Medic for example is a pretty easy one to calculate that with. Other characters who have abilities that cannot be replicated with actions are harder for sure. When I do some simple logic I find that the Generalist's 5th action is extremely low value. I can hardly think of any situation where I feel that playing him is actually better than another character.
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Voodoo Chile
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EvilNuff wrote:

That's the wrong way to look at it. You want to make some form of estimate of actions saved by other character abilities over the course of the game.
Believe me, that's how I think! The Generalist is not sexy, but a 25% increase in actions for one character meets or exceeds the effective actions on the other characters, in my opinion.

EvilNuff wrote:
I can hardly think of any situation where I feel that playing him is actually better than another character.
I'm glad we can all have our favourites =) What are yours?

 
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David Goodnuff
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voodoochile78 wrote:
EvilNuff wrote:

That's the wrong way to look at it. You want to make some form of estimate of actions saved by other character abilities over the course of the game.
Believe me, that's how I think! The Generalist is not sexy, but a 25% increase in actions for one character meets or exceeds the effective actions on the other characters, in my opinion.

EvilNuff wrote:
I can hardly think of any situation where I feel that playing him is actually better than another character.
I'm glad we can all have our favourites =) What are yours?

I would love for someone to show me how the generalist isn't flat out bad (vs other characters)! Dispatcher is my favorite and quarantine expert is probably my second favorite. Both because they allow for functionality that nobody else can do. QE allows our group to control our coda virus and the dispatcher just increases everyone's mobility. The medic has saved more actions in every game we have played than the generalist has provided.
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Voodoo Chile
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Medic is great and probably has the most number of effective actions of all the characters. So if you want to compare medic vs generalist for effective number of actions, fine, medic wins.

However, I learned long ago that treating diseases doesn't win games. I'm much more aggressive about trading cards and getting cures knocked out. So I don't use the medic very much. That's just a personal choice for a strategy I usually go with.

Anyways, I'll agree that the Medic has the most number of effective actions. After that though, the Generalist having 25% more actions, and reliably so, is pretty damn powerful. You say you have a lost of wasted 5th actions, but not me. And I've played regular Pandemic over a hundred times (I used to keep a log). I'll use those 5th actions to trade cards, or get into position to trade cards, or take an extra disease cube off the board. Not sexy at all, but it's meat-and-potatoes Pandemic gameplay.
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David Goodnuff
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Something else to keep in mind is the initial setup can affect which characters are best to play, as well as how many players you have of course. If for example your setup has 2 3 cube cities and a 2 cube city all together threatening then you very well might be better off with the medic. If your initial distribution of cards is clumped then you may be better off with the scientist/researcher.
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Robert Stewart
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EvilNuff wrote:
voodoochile78 wrote:
...
Our other favourite is the Generalist. I was a big fan in regular Pandemic, and my argument was that you can almost always find a good thing to do with that 5th action. With other characters, their special ability may not be relevant every turn. ...
That's the wrong way to look at it. You want to make some form of estimate of actions saved by other character abilities over the course of the game. The Medic for example is a pretty easy one to calculate that with. Other characters who have abilities that cannot be replicated with actions are harder for sure. When I do some simple logic I find that the Generalist's 5th action is extremely low value. I can hardly think of any situation where I feel that playing him is actually better than another character.
The thing with the Medic is that their additional cube removals when Treating, while they would cost actions to do with some other character, often aren't saving actions that anyone would have actually taken. Something similar applies to post-Cure free cube-removals. Yes, we'll often pick up a cheap eradication that way, but it's often by mopping up some single cubes that we wouldn't normally have bothered with. Actually figuring out how many actions are saved by the Medic spending an entire turn just moving around to mop up a disease is not obvious. And even figuring out the value of removing 3 cubes from a city in one action before the first Epidemic isn't trivial - maybe half the time, that city doesn't come around again until after the 3rd or 4th Epidemic, and the single cube you'd have removed with anyone else would have covered you until you cleared it with a single action post-Cure...

The Dispatcher is even harder to figure out - just by moving people around out of turn, they can make their turn more efficient - a simple example would be letting players Share Knowledge of two cities a round sooner, or letting someone get to a trouble-spot with enough actions spare to Treat/Quarantine rather than having to wait a round (and hope nothing blows up) before doing it. And then there's the actions saved by his special movement allowing pawns to cross the board for a single action when it would normally cost several actions and at least one city card...

The Researcher's direct savings are the movement actions that would be needed to get to all the cities they are handing over. Indirectly, by enabling the cards for a Cure to be gathered more efficiently, they're potentially saving additional rounds. Also, there are other reasons why the right person having a particular card can be beneficial, and the Researcher can help with that too...

The Scientist's direct action saving, like the Researcher's, comes from not needing to co-ordinate movement in order to exchange cards through reducing the number of cards that need to be collected. There's also the indirect savings from getting Cures earlier, from having more "spare" City cards available for long-distance movement, and from not having to spend rounds waiting for suitable cards to be drawn...

The Generalist's +1 action/round is the simplest special ability to evaluate in terms of action economy, and, even there, the question of tempo is relevant - one additional action now can save several in a future round, whether it's Treating a cube in passing saving moving back there later, or Treating a city before it Outbreaks rather than after there are extra cubes to clear up...
 
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Sonny Blount
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Torquato wrote:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
The solidier is indeed the more valuable role. And with the paramilitary escort, he becomes a true John Rambo. The paramilitary escort is a special ability that removes a faded figure every time you leave a city. It is so overpowered that it will be picked as an end game bonus the moment it is available (which is in August, I think). The soldier is the most logical choice to receive the bonus.

The game designer placed this combination deliberately, because later the military person carrying this special ability will be the traitor and lost for the group as a character. I guess in 90% of the games, it will be the soldier that becomes the traitor (that also fits the story) and the colonel becomes his replacement.
It's bloody annoying to receive this unmarked spoiler in a thread headed "before July spoilers'
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Ari C
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croloris wrote:
Personally, I think roadblocks are bad strategically. THey will help you only if things are already FUBAR. Quarantine is much better.

We have the soldier and Quarantine Agent as co-workers. They really wreck shop in the Middle East, where our CoDa is located.
we used roadblocks to completely cut off the red zone (home of CoDa). CoDa isn't getting out. we have two permanent military bases in the two red zones. we send the quarantine specialist and soldier inside to shut that down. it works very very well.
 
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