Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
20 Posts

Carson City» Forums » Rules

Subject: Clearer Engligh Rules? FAQ? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
John Callahan
United States
Fort Collins
CO
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm new to this game and am amazed at the very poor English rule book. Have searched the files/forum here, but see no reference to a more comprehensive English rule set (apparently the Dutch and German versions are more complete/clear?!?)

Do clearer rules exist?

Does an FAQ exist?

Frustrating.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Stadel
Canada
Calgary
Alberta
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
There is a 2nd edition of the rulebook but its not a whole lot better. I would recommend watching a video or two to see how it plays, then re-read the rulebook to see what you missed.

Chances are others have had similar problems so their/your questions may already be answered in the forum; otherwise, just ask.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Karl Fast
United States
Minneapolis
Minnesota
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
JHCallahan wrote:
I'm new to this game and am amazed at the very poor English rule book. Have searched the files/forum here, but see no reference to a more comprehensive English rule set (apparently the Dutch and German versions are more complete/clear?!?)

Do clearer rules exist?

Does an FAQ exist?

Frustrating.
I learned from the rulebook and don't recall any significant problems. The rulebook is quite short: only a few pages for the core rules, and then a few more pages for different tiles. Also, I believe someone posted a teaching guide to BGG. Check the files. You might find that helpful, and more helpful than a FAQ, because the teaching guide has a narrative to it.

If you listed specific questions that would help. I can see you are frustrated and would be happy to answer questions, as I'm sure many people in the forums would be.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nathan McCullough
United States
Germantown
Tennessee
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Interesting, I don't recall the rules being that bad?

Just out of curiosity though, what rules questions do you have?
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ken Bush
United States
West Linn
Oregon
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I think it's an odd game because the way to score points versus the main role selection and worker placement is not obvious to the newcomer. But the rules are all there, in the book, just sometimes not in the location you want them to be.

Do a walk through of the game by yourself before you try to play with others, then read the rules again. I think everything will make sense for you then.

Also, ignore the options and add-ons for the first game or 2, just use the plain vanilla rule set.

It's a lot of fun if you don't mind some player interaction.

Ken
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Callahan
United States
Fort Collins
CO
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks, all. I'll push ahead as I'm very interested in the game.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Karl Fast
United States
Minneapolis
Minnesota
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
JHCallahan wrote:
Thanks, all. I'll push ahead as I'm very interested in the game.
And feel free to ask questions. Once you get the gist of this it is straightforward.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Renée Harris
United States
Knoxville
Tennessee
flag msg tools
Member of East Tennessee Gamers
badge
Board game addict and evangelist -- I spread the good news of board games!
Avatar
Microbadge: I play with red!Microbadge: Anachrony fanMicrobadge: 5 Year Geek VeteranMicrobadge: Heavy Games fanMicrobadge: Cavalier King Charles Spaniel lover
I just purchased the game and read the rules today. I was also stunned at how many details seem to be lacking. I don't feel like the income numbers for the buildings is clearly laid out. The rules did not explain clearly how and when I turn the buildings to adjust income. Is this supposed to be inferred? Can the income numbers go down for places like a Ranch if we build around it and the empty places around it become filled? And when it says I receiver 1 point of firepower when I build that ranch, is that a one time increase, or every time I have a duel? These are questions I had immediately upon finishing my reading of the rules. I would LOVE some clarity.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Karl Fast
United States
Minneapolis
Minnesota
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
reneeh1 wrote:
I don't feel like the income numbers for the buildings is clearly laid out. The rules did not explain clearly how and when I turn the buildings to adjust income. Is this supposed to be inferred?
The income for each building is calculated based on other buildings on the board. It varies with the building. A bank gets $3 for each house on an adjacent tile, including diagonal, plus one for each mine. So if someone adds a house next to a bank, adjust the income for the bank. If someone adds a mine, adjust the income for the bank. Anytime someone builds a building it will probably change the income for one or more buildings. And if you forget to adjust it's no big deal -- you just check everything during the income phase.

Quote:
Can the income numbers go down for places like a Ranch if we build around it and the empty places around it become filled?
Yes. You get $1 for each empty parcel surrounding a ranch during the income phase. So if empty parcels are bought up, then your ranch generates less income.

Only two buildings can lose income.

The ranch loses $1 of income as empty adjacent parcels are filled in. So it generates a maximum of $8 and that can only go down.

The mine loses $3 of income if adjacent mountains are purchased by other players. That is, a mine generates $3 for each adjacent mountain so long as nobody owns the mountain, or the person who owns the mine also owns the mountain. If someone else owns the parcel, the mine no longer generates $3 for that particular mountain.

Quote:
And when it says I receiver 1 point of firepower when I build that ranch, is that a one time increase, or every time I have a duel?
No. You get 1 gun token when you build a ranch (firepower is represented by gun tokens). Same for a mine. Build a prison you get two gun tokens. That's what the gun symbol in the corner of the building tile means.

Those tokens are never lost. They are used during a gunfight, but you don't lose firepower.

The exception to this is the +3 firepower token. That is in effect only for the current round. Then you return it to the action track for the next round.

Quote:
These are questions I had immediately upon finishing my reading of the rules. I would LOVE some clarity.
I hope that gives you some clarity.

The rulebook is concise. It is also a reasonably complex game and pushing the pieces around will help a lot. I almost always need to push the bits around to understand any rulebook, certainly for a game like this. This doesn't, in my book, make the rulebook bad. It's just a game with too many moving parts to learn it all straight from the rulebook.

The files section has a very good teaching guide. I've used it when teaching the game.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Renée Harris
United States
Knoxville
Tennessee
flag msg tools
Member of East Tennessee Gamers
badge
Board game addict and evangelist -- I spread the good news of board games!
Avatar
Microbadge: I play with red!Microbadge: Anachrony fanMicrobadge: 5 Year Geek VeteranMicrobadge: Heavy Games fanMicrobadge: Cavalier King Charles Spaniel lover
Thank you, Karl! That was extremely helpful! I'm excited to play my first game of Carson City this weekend!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ken Bush
United States
West Linn
Oregon
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
karlfast wrote:


Only two buildings can lose income.

Not quite right. All buildings that rely on adjacent Houses for income can lose some if someone other than the owner of the building buys a previously unowned adjacent house parcel.

Ken
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Geller
United States
Sacramento
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
reneeh1 wrote:
Thank you, Karl! That was extremely helpful! I'm excited to play my first game of Carson City this weekend!
If you're up for an hourlong podcast, there is a How to Play Podcast which teaches the game.
3 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Karl Fast
United States
Minneapolis
Minnesota
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
klbush wrote:
karlfast wrote:
Only two buildings can lose income.
Not quite right. All buildings that rely on adjacent Houses for income can lose some if someone other than the owner of the building buys a previously unowned adjacent house parcel.
Good point.

I always think of ranches and mines as being in the same category. Once you place them their value can only decrease with time, never grow. If people buy up empty parcels around a ranch, it generates less income. If people buy up mountains around a mine, it generates less income.

What a building generates can increase, usually by adding more houses around the building. But if those houses are bought by other players then the building will generate less. So you can do things to make many buildings earn more money, which you can't do with ranches and mines, but other players can then reduce that.

2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Karl Fast
United States
Minneapolis
Minnesota
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
Shmello50 wrote:
If you're up for an hourlong podcast, there is a How to Play Podcast which teaches the game.
There is also at least one video that walks through the basics, including an entire round.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Carsten Jorgensen
Denmark
flag msg tools
karlfast wrote:
klbush wrote:
karlfast wrote:
Only two buildings can lose income.
Not quite right. All buildings that rely on adjacent Houses for income can lose some if someone other than the owner of the building buys a previously unowned adjacent house parcel.
Good point.

I always think of ranches and mines as being in the same category. Once you place them their value can only decrease with time, never grow. If people buy up empty parcels around a ranch, it generates less income. If people buy up mountains around a mine, it generates less income.

What a building generates can increase, usually by adding more houses around the building. But if those houses are bought by other players then the building will generate less. So you can do things to make many buildings earn more money, which you can't do with ranches and mines, but other players can then reduce that.

The bold is only true, if those other players actually build something on the parcels (so they stop being empty). Your cattle from the ranch can graze in all empty parcels around it - no matter who owns them .
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jake Kamps
United States
Richmond
Indiana
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
If I own a Ranch, w/ 8 empty parcel spaces of land around it, but Player B owns 1 one of those empty parcels, (In other words 1 of the spaces around the Ranch has a property tile of another player's color on it, but without a building on that tile) And this were the 1st Round of the game, during the Estate Income action phase would I rotate my Ranch token so that it points to $7, or $8 on my property tile?

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Carsten Jorgensen
Denmark
flag msg tools
rockxhero wrote:
If I own a Ranch, w/ 8 empty parcel spaces of land around it, but Player B owns 1 one of those empty parcels, (In other words 1 of the spaces around the Ranch has a property tile of another player's color on it, but without a building on that tile) And this were the 1st Round of the game, during the Estate Income action phase would I rotate my Ranch token so that it points to $7, or $8 on my property tile?

It would give you $8 (thematically your cattle can wander into the property of another player as long as there is no building on it).

3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dr Edward Locke
United States
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
Microbadge: I play with black!Microbadge: Fan of FUN gamesMicrobadge: Geek RegularMicrobadge: Savage Worlds RPG fanMicrobadge: Eurogamer
Shmello50 wrote:
reneeh1 wrote:
Thank you, Karl! That was extremely helpful! I'm excited to play my first game of Carson City this weekend!
If you're up for an hourlong podcast, there is a How to Play Podcast which teaches the game.
You really should check this out:
http://howtoplaypodcast.com/episodes/episodes-31-40/episode-...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jim Gutt
United States
Chandler
Arizona
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmb
Amazed there's no FAQ for a game this popular and out this long, but since there isn't, would love to have someone answer following questions. Note: *Please cite rules section (pg #) that gives the clear answer to these questions*, thanks!

1. Sheriff's variant (red side) 3 VPs are awarded when?
a. Anytime a duel has occurred -- there's always a loser of a duel, right?
b. This includes bandit duels, right?
c. Or only when the Sheriff has forfeited a duel opportunity due to the card rules, ie only when he would have been able to duel, but 'lost' the chance to do so?
d. All of the above?

2. Is Sheriff allowed to place on a space with another cowboy that would normally cause a duel, or is this not allowed (ie, if 1c is ruled true, the Sheriff cannot pick up easy VPs by simply following other players onto spaces they've placed on earlier in the phase)?

3. Does Gunsmith (white side) get 2 VPs if on a space with only the Sheriff, ie, is there a 'duel', but Sheriff auto-loses and Gunsmith auto-wins? And Sheriff also gets 3 VPs?$

4. Station counts as what for a General Store? 0, 1, 2 houses? Rules say it counts as 2 houses for Drugstore, Bank and Saloons...

5. If a mine is salted (ie, income reduced to zero), do co-owned Banks still get a $3 income boost?

6. Can roads be extended anytime on a player's turn? Or only when building? Assume also that more than minimum amount of roads is allowed to be built, but please correct me if I'm wrong on that (if so, Station is *real* hard to complete!!)...

7. How is a property 'diagonally' adjacent to a bridge? By definition, a bridge will have either 3 or 4 parcels adjacent to it, right? EG., bridge on west side of parcel B4W3 has 3 parcel available to it (B3W3, B5W2 & B5W3), while one on the east side of same space has 4 (B3W3, B3W4, B5W3, B5W4). Not sure how any other spaces can connect, and either all or none of these connect 'diagonally' (you can't connect 'diagonally' to a point...).

will probably have more in the future, as I get more into the game, thanks ahead of time for all replies!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gillum the Stoor
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
teddog wrote:
Sheriff's variant (red side) 3 VPs are awarded when?
a. Anytime a duel has occurred -- there's always a loser of a duel, right?
b. This includes bandit duels, right?
c. Or only when the Sheriff has forfeited a duel opportunity due to the card rules, ie only when he would have been able to duel, but 'lost' the chance to do so?
d. All of the above?
The red Sheriff gets 3 points only when he participates in a duel and loses. This is explicit in the original French rules. This would include duels against outlaws - but those are possible only when defending your own building (see here).

Thus, not [a], yes to [b] (as above), not [c], not [d]. As explained below, [c] does not apply because that is not how the game works.

teddog wrote:
Is Sheriff allowed to place on a space with another cowboy that would normally cause a duel, or is this not allowed (ie, if 1c is ruled true, the Sheriff cannot pick up easy VPs by simply following other players onto spaces they've placed on earlier in the phase)?
This is not allowed for the red sheriff (except for buildings that he owns). Thus, it's not the sheriff places a cowboy and automatically loses the due - he is not allowed to place the cowboy at all, and there is no duel.

That is what is meant by "You are not allowed to ... engage in a duel (except to defend yourself)." The French rules more clearly indicate that the exception is "except to defend your buildings."

For the yellow sheriff, the rules are similar for the white cowboy, with the exception that you cannot start a duel even to defend one of our buildings. Normally, that is not an issue, as the white cowboy will usually be placed first. There might be an interesting question about the paperboy here.

teddog wrote:
Does Gunsmith (white side) get 2 VPs if on a space with only the Sheriff, ie, is there a 'duel', but Sheriff auto-loses and Gunsmith auto-wins? And Sheriff also gets 3 VPs?$
As explained above, there is no "auto lose/win" with the red sheriff (or the white cowboy). These duels never happen.

teddog wrote:
Station counts as what for a General Store? 0, 1, 2 houses? Rules say it counts as 2 houses for Drugstore, Bank and Saloons...
Page 13 of the Big Box rules indicate that "The Station is considered two Houses when calculating Drugstore, Bank, Saloon, and General store incomes."

teddog wrote:
If a mine is salted (ie, income reduced to zero), do co-owned Banks still get a $3 income boost?
Yes. The rules for Banks say that it gets "$3 ... per Mine owned by the player." There is no mention of the Mine's income limiting this. (The mining company keeps its bank account open even after the mine is played out.)

teddog wrote:
Can roads be extended anytime on a player's turn? Or only when building? Assume also that more than minimum amount of roads is allowed to be built, but please correct me if I'm wrong on that (if so, Station is *real* hard to complete!!)...
You are allowed to build roads any time you want.

Page 4 of the original rules says, "The roads in a player’s personal supply are always available for construction and may be placed on the board at any given time during the game."

The rules also clarify that "a newly constructed road must always must always extend previous placed roads."

teddog wrote:
How is a property 'diagonally' adjacent to a bridge? By definition, a bridge will have either 3 or 4 parcels adjacent to it, right? EG., bridge on west side of parcel B4W3 has 3 parcel available to it (B3W3, B5W2 & B5W3), while one on the east side of same space has 4 (B3W3, B3W4, B5W3, B5W4). Not sure how any other spaces can connect, and either all or none of these connect 'diagonally' (you can't connect 'diagonally' to a point...).
Where do you the word "diagonal" used in the bridge rules? I don't find it in the original rules or in the Big Box rules.

Regardless, here is how to understand the rule for bridges increasing the victory-point value of parcels.

Each bridge is on a line between two river parcels (which cannot be owned or have a building, house, or mountain). Each of the two endpoints of the bridge touches two other parcels. (Each of the endpoint parcels is orthogonally adjacent one of the river parcels and diagonally adjacent to the other.)

Each bridge thus has four endpoint parcels. Because of bends in the river, some of those endpoint parcels may themselves be river parcels. The endpoint parcels that are not river parcels may be owned and may have buildings, houses, or mountains.

If, at the end of the game, an endpoint parcel of a bridge is owned and has a building, a house, or a mountain, the owner gets 3 victory points instead of the usual 2.

Because of bends in the river, it is possible for a parcel to be an endpoint parcel of more than one bridge. The owner of this parcel (if it has a building, a house, or a mountain) still gets only 3 points for it at the end of the game.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls