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Subject: ObamaCare’s death spiral, stage one: Denial rss

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Steven Woodcock
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No surprise to any of us who understand economics:

http://nypost.com/2015/11/02/obamacares-death-spiral-stage-o...

One can make a case that the richest nation in the history of the world could afford to provide free health care to all its citizens and I think that's a worthy discussion.

But this...this is just a mess and it's making things worse.



Ferret
 
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Boaty McBoatface
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If only then there had been an offer made to support free healthcare for all.

Obamacare is a fudge born out of a political necessity to avoid the label of SOCIALISM!
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Steven Woodcock
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slatersteven wrote:
If only then there had been an offer made to support free healthcare for all.

Obamacare is a fudge born out of a political necessity to avoid the label of SOCIALISM!
I would indeed have had marginally more respect for them if they'd done that.



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Boaty McBoatface
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Ferretman wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
If only then there had been an offer made to support free healthcare for all.

Obamacare is a fudge born out of a political necessity to avoid the label of SOCIALISM!
I would indeed have had marginally more respect for them if they'd done that.



Ferret
What, failed? They were never going to get free healthcare passed.
 
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Adam Alleman
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This was always a giveaway to the insurance companies. They kicked the single payer supporters out of the discussion early on. Because money rules the politics in DC we'll never have single payer because the insurance companies have too much of it. Until that gets fixed the rest of us can talk about good legislation all day long, but unless you can buy congress the way big corporations do, we can suck it.
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Lee Fisher
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yup a pretty legit source
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Steven Woodcock
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slatersteven wrote:
Ferretman wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
If only then there had been an offer made to support free healthcare for all.

Obamacare is a fudge born out of a political necessity to avoid the label of SOCIALISM!
I would indeed have had marginally more respect for them if they'd done that.



Ferret
What, failed? They were never going to get free healthcare passed.

I didn't say "failed", though I agree with that assessment.



Ferret
 
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Mac Mcleod
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Ferretman wrote:
No surprise to any of us who understand economics:

http://nypost.com/2015/11/02/obamacares-death-spiral-stage-o...

One can make a case that the richest nation in the history of the world could afford to provide free health care to all its citizens and I think that's a worthy discussion.

But this...this is just a mess and it's making things worse.



Ferret
http://libguides.pace.edu/c.php?g=63918&p=410866
Conservative: Wall Street Journal, New York Post, Washington Times

Could be true.. probably biased take on the facts.

Nice graphic here too but can't link it.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2014/10/21/le...


I think there are problems in some states. It would be better if it were a national program. I get excellent rates in a state with a large population.

Had some issues with my 1095 that gave me the creeps tho. Should be resolved now.
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Steven Woodcock
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lfisher wrote:
yup a pretty legit source

I'm wondering if there's a list somewhere hereabouts where liberals and conservatives could provide sources they think are legitimate/credible? Maybe a moderator could make that a sticky thread...that might be handy. Of course there would be all kinds of arguments for why XYZ was or wasn't a credible source in and of itself, so perhaps that's not gonna work.

Bear in mind that the cite is an editorial -- surely one can provide more leeway there vs. a more hard facts site.




Ferret
 
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Mac Mcleod
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Ferretman wrote:
lfisher wrote:
yup a pretty legit source

I'm wondering if there's a list somewhere hereabouts where liberals and conservatives could provide sources they think are legitimate/credible? Maybe a moderator could make that a sticky thread...that might be handy. Of course there would be all kinds of arguments for why XYZ was or wasn't a credible source in and of itself, so perhaps that's not gonna work.

Bear in mind that the cite is an editorial -- surely one can provide more leeway there vs. a more hard facts site.




Ferret
Well, of course, the gold standard is Fox News.
 
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Steven Woodcock
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maxo-texas wrote:

http://libguides.pace.edu/c.php?g=63918&p=410866
Conservative: Wall Street Journal, New York Post, Washington Times
If those are your definition of "conservative", you're gonna have a hard life.


Interesting charts tho.



Ferret
 
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Steven Woodcock
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maxo-texas wrote:

Well, of course, the gold standard is Fox News. :D
Their news is solid and as unbiased as you can find generally. What most leftists continually get confused/angry over are their opinion shows.


Ferret
 
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Boaty McBoatface
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Ferretman wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
Ferretman wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
If only then there had been an offer made to support free healthcare for all.

Obamacare is a fudge born out of a political necessity to avoid the label of SOCIALISM!
I would indeed have had marginally more respect for them if they'd done that.



Ferret
What, failed? They were never going to get free healthcare passed.

I didn't say "failed", though I agree with that assessment.



Ferret
I know you did not, but that is what would have happened. Personally I think a cold meal is better than no meal at all.
 
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Mac Mcleod
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Ferretman wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:

http://libguides.pace.edu/c.php?g=63918&p=410866
Conservative: Wall Street Journal, New York Post, Washington Times
If those are your definition of "conservative", you're gonna have a hard life.


Interesting charts tho.



Ferret
My life has been pretty spectacular actually. I'm very happy with the way it went so far.

Who would you consider conservative? Anyone mainstream?



oh oh.. and who do you consider "too conservative" for your tastes?

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Ron Preisach
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maxo-texas wrote:
Ferretman wrote:
No surprise to any of us who understand economics:

http://nypost.com/2015/11/02/obamacares-death-spiral-stage-o...

One can make a case that the richest nation in the history of the world could afford to provide free health care to all its citizens and I think that's a worthy discussion.

But this...this is just a mess and it's making things worse.



Ferret
http://libguides.pace.edu/c.php?g=63918&p=410866
Conservative: Wall Street Journal, New York Post, Washington Times

Could be true.. probably biased take on the facts.

Nice graphic here too but can't link it.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2014/10/21/le...


I think there are problems in some states. It would be better if it were a national program. I get excellent rates in a state with a large population.

Had some issues with my 1095 that gave me the creeps tho. Should be resolved now.
Yeah, I'm still averaging a net decrease in my health insurance premiums since Obamacare started.
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casey r lowe
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Ferretman wrote:
Their news is solid and as unbiased as you can find generally. What most leftists continually get confused/angry over are their opinion shows.
it is impossible to separate news and opinion
 
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Mac Mcleod
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edgerunner76 wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
Ferretman wrote:
No surprise to any of us who understand economics:

http://nypost.com/2015/11/02/obamacares-death-spiral-stage-o...

One can make a case that the richest nation in the history of the world could afford to provide free health care to all its citizens and I think that's a worthy discussion.

But this...this is just a mess and it's making things worse.



Ferret
http://libguides.pace.edu/c.php?g=63918&p=410866
Conservative: Wall Street Journal, New York Post, Washington Times

Could be true.. probably biased take on the facts.

Nice graphic here too but can't link it.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2014/10/21/le...


I think there are problems in some states. It would be better if it were a national program. I get excellent rates in a state with a large population.

Had some issues with my 1095 that gave me the creeps tho. Should be resolved now.
Yeah, I'm still averaging a net decrease in my health insurance premiums since Obamacare started.
Oh- I wouldn't be able to get coverage at all without the ACA. Basically on the road to death or a lot of misery.
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Donald
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Quote:

By Rich Lowry




comments.lowry@nationalreview.com
Fair and balanced.
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James Webb Space Telescope in 2018!
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I've seen reports too in the "liberal press" lately about trouble with Obamacare.

Doesn't surprise me. Republicans were obviously never behind it, and refused to cooperate or compromise in any way with efforts to try to improve it. Usually when major legislation gets passed, it gets reworked and revised to make it work better. Didn't happen.

Our country is so divided over which direction to take on things like this, it seems like it's heading toward becoming ungovernable. But maybe the Republicans would describe it as keeping the government from doing too much.
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Boaty McBoatface
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tesuji wrote:
I've seen reports too in the "liberal press" lately about trouble with Obamacare.

Doesn't surprise me. Republicans were obviously never behind it, and refused to cooperate or compromise in any way with efforts to try to improve it. Usually when major legislation gets passed, it gets reworked and revised to make it work better. Didn't happen.

Our country is so divided over which direction to take on things like this, it seems like it's heading toward becoming ungovernable. But maybe the Republicans would describe it as keeping the government from doing too much.
What is bizarre is that this was based upon a republican plan that had been put into effect (successfully, apparently) in a Republican state.

The Irony is that if Romney had been elected president in 2008 there might still have been something like the ACA.
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Les Marshall
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Ferretman wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:

Well, of course, the gold standard is Fox News.
Their news is solid and as unbiased as you can find generally. What most leftists continually get confused/angry over are their opinion shows.


Ferret
Yeah, I have to say my local Fox affiliate here in the Seattle area does a reasonably good job. It's their national pundits that seem to be allergic to empirical data.

You are correct to point out this is merely and editorial and thus not exactly subject to an examination of sources. It isn't exactly a surprise that Obamacare is struggling for many of the reasons discussed but, the observation is incomplete without due consideration to the efforts of many to cause it to fail. Some states refused any of the voluntary participation elements and some were petty enough to limit or withhold funding to even educate their citizens about how to interface with the new law. The endless tide of lawsuits and negative marketing by talking heads hasn't helped either. Even an otherwise sound bank would have trouble operating in an environment where it's customers faith was attacked before the doors even opened.

Having said all that, a truly bipartisan health care bill would have likely produced something far more effective than this one. The very concept of bipartisanship appears dead on the national level.
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Josh
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Koldfoot wrote:
http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2015/10/30/45282449...

$40,000 premium for a "bare bones" insurance policy with a $10,000 deductible.
This quote was too priceles to not share for those who won't click the link:

Quote:
"It's a scary proposition," he says. "There's always bankruptcy but, my goodness, why should I be having to even think about things like that related to my health insurance?"
The article itself, and the guy quoted, all point out Alaska is a wierd special snowflake. That said all I can say to the business owners with a family of 5 and dentists experiencing this now is.

A)hope they get it sorted for you.

B)Welcome to a hopefuply brief stay in a situation millions of working poor have faced for decades, maybe it'll open eyes.

Edit:It should be noted the guy quoted also talked about the possibility of flying to Thailand in an emergency if he drops his insurance, so I suppose still not *exactly* the same situation as the working poor.
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Mike Stiles
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"oh, my goodness!"

Harsh times demand Strong Language.
 
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Steven Woodcock
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maxo-texas wrote:


Who would you consider conservative? Anyone mainstream?

Hmmm....that's a reasonable question.

Fox News (the news, not the opinion shows) is pretty fair but leans conservative. The Blaze is pretty conservative but I don't read it often mostly as I a.) don't think about it and b.) don't much care for the Christian overtones that creep in.

The various UK publications range from somewhat conservative to batshit crazy liberal. There are a couple of Russian sites I read on occasion; they seem very scattered to me and lean too often towards conspiracy theory stuff.


maxo-texas wrote:

oh oh.. and who do you consider "too conservative" for your tastes?

Hmmmm.....

I'm not a huge fan of Mark Levin, who is very conservative. I mostly think it's his presentation more than what he's saying. And of course his is an opinion show, as is Sean Hannity's.

Hard-pressed to think of many other conservative news shows. I probably will as soon as I hit the SUBMIT key.


Ferret


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Steven Woodcock
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single sentences wrote:
[q="Ferretman"]Their news is solid and as unbiased as you can find generally. What most leftists continually get confused/angry over are their opinion shows.
it is impossible to separate news and opinion[/q

That's an interesting assertion.....can't say I agree with it overmuch though.

I will grant as how it's very much harder to find somebody who can keep his/her opinion out of the news they're reporting than it used to be.



Ferret
 
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