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Subject: High on AST chart good or bad rss

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Jon Pessano
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All,

Since Africa is first on AST chart, is that good or bad?

What are the pros and cons of being at top of chart?

Is moving first a good or bad thing?

Thx
jonpfl
 
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Tom McThorn
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It's good in that you get first crack at commodity cards...but bad because it's one of the weaker areas on the map. As for moving first...well that means you have the most people (usually good) but it allows your "neighbors" to incur on your territory if you spread yourself too thin. Later in the game if you have Military you go near the end of the pack which lets you react to all the other moves.

I've played Africa...and didn't do well that game.
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John R.
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I always liked playing Africa, actually. If you plan your moves right and others aren't watching carefully you can get up into the Italian peninsula and also move east as far as Cyrene. Then you can build 12-cities in Sahara and Tripolitania. Or you can act nice and graciously concede Cyrene to the Egyptians and/or pull back to Sicily.

Iberia (with the Western Extension Map) and Illyria are also good positions to play but have less defensible borders. I don't like Crete.
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Martin DeOlden
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Moving last in the game or near the end of the pack is usually better late game as you do not have to worry about all the other movement that might ruin your plans if you had gone first and had everyone else move around or into your areas with no way of defending it.

You have to sometimes worry more in going first that you might need to place extra people in a city site so that someone else does not just come along and put 2 there to kill it.

I like Africa only with the WXM and not without it. Agriculture is definitely a very good card for Africa.
 
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Frank Hamrick
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Give me Babylon. I always do well with them. Generally win or in contention to the very last turn. Making good alliances, however, is crucial.
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Robert Fox
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Generally being high on the AST is good in situations where it matters (breaking ties, etc), but those nations also tend to have less ideal starting locations.

Egypt, being last, has a great starting location, especially since with a bit of work, they can get the large majority of their cities built off of the coast (which makes those cities immune to some of the more devastating calamities and insulating them from late game city attack via navies).

Africa is one of my favorite cultures to play. There's some interesting stuff that goes on in Sicily and on the eastern boarder with Egypt.
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Randy Brown
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tawnos76 wrote:
You have to sometimes worry more in going first that you might need to place extra people in a city site so that someone else does not just come along and put 2 there to kill it.


Your advice is right on, but 2 tokens will not kill a city. Your opponent must move in at least 7 tokens (more or less depending on who has Engineering), otherwise the city wipes out the attackers without having to break.

RB
 
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H-B-G
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discoking7 wrote:
tawnos76 wrote:
You have to sometimes worry more in going first that you might need to place extra people in a city site so that someone else does not just come along and put 2 there to kill it.


Your advice is right on, but 2 tokens will not kill a city. Your opponent must move in at least 7 tokens (more or less depending on who has Engineering), otherwise the city wipes out the attackers without having to break.

RB


I think he's talking about building a city in the first place. You move 6 tokens to the site and some one later moves 2 tokens in. The conflict knocks you down to 5 tokens so you can't build.
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Martin DeOlden
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DaveD wrote:
discoking7 wrote:
tawnos76 wrote:
You have to sometimes worry more in going first that you might need to place extra people in a city site so that someone else does not just come along and put 2 there to kill it.


Your advice is right on, but 2 tokens will not kill a city. Your opponent must move in at least 7 tokens (more or less depending on who has Engineering), otherwise the city wipes out the attackers without having to break.

RB


I think he's talking about building a city in the first place. You move 6 tokens to the site and some one later moves 2 tokens in. The conflict knocks you down to 5 tokens so you can't build.


That is exactly what I was meaning.
Had it done enough to me in competitive games when I lived out east and could go to WBC.
Mean but it works and if you are overloaded with extra guys that are going to die anyways sometimes sending in skirmishers is a good way to use those that would die from overpopulation anyways.
Just remember this is not a wargame so too much of this and you could bring in some ire from the other players and find yourself out of trade partners later in the game.
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Jeff Lotton
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jonpfl wrote:
All,

Since Africa is first on AST chart, is that good or bad?

What are the pros and cons of being at top of chart?

Is moving first a good or bad thing?

Thx
jonpfl


The AST order really doesn't make a huge difference, but as someone noted the trade card draw can be advantageous if buying is allowed in the game.

You get tie breakers that somehow are not covered any other way.

Also, the epoch requirements are slightly different for each civ so that's another balancing act the AST tries to do.

Movement order is by census, or by civ card. Moving last is always best IMHO.
 
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Hans Petter Evju
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High on AST is very good imo. Moving first the first 4-5 turns is not a big deal, and if you REALLY think you need to go last, it's easy to put 3 tokens in a territory and skip one growth so you have 1 less tokens than the rest.

That being said, good players will hammer out a peace treaty early in the game, as in the early game you really don't have any tokens to spare.

Later in the game, AST beeing the tie breaker on the turn order almost never happens. Not getting trade goods because the pile is empty is much more common, so at this point being high in the AST is very valuable.

Babylon, Assyria and Egypt are all easy to play and have quite a bit of space, they are what I call newbie nations. Experienced players know to pressure that side of the map so the advantage in space is lost.

All the top 5 on the AST are very good nations when you get a bit experience and don't get aggressive neighbors. And all of them are better than the bottom 4 in my opinion.

If any of the top 5 on the AST go to war, they will both loose the game (unless it's very late in the game). If you suspect this will happen, I would go with any of the bottom 3, as they are pretty much immune to war.

And make sure never to play both asia and assyria in the same game
 
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