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Subject: If it's from FFG, I'm suspicious... rss

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Michael Denman
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FFG has quite the... habit... of releasing "new" games that seriously borrow from one of their old games (In some cases, it's just a re-skin of an old game with nothing at all changed). I am already speculating if that's the case here. Right now, the best contender seems to be Runewars. We don't have nearly enough information to really know anything at this point, but that's the current vibe I'm getting.

(By the way, I'm not saying that this is necessarily bad or anything.)
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Trump wrote:
FFG has quite the... habit... of releasing "new" games that seriously borrow from one of their old games. In some cases, it's just a re-skin of an old game with nothing at all changed. I am already speculating if that's the case here. Right now, the best contender seems to be Runewars. We don't have nearly enough information to really know anything at this point, but that's the current vibe I'm getting.

(By the way, I'm not saying that this is necessarily bad or anything.)
What game have they released thats a reskin of an old game with nothing at all changed? I can't think of a single instance of that.
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InkSplat wrote:
Trump wrote:
FFG has quite the... habit... of releasing "new" games that seriously borrow from one of their old games. In some cases, it's just a re-skin of an old game with nothing at all changed. I am already speculating if that's the case here. Right now, the best contender seems to be Runewars. We don't have nearly enough information to really know anything at this point, but that's the current vibe I'm getting.

(By the way, I'm not saying that this is necessarily bad or anything.)
What game have they released thats a reskin of an old game with nothing at all changed? I can't think of a single instance of that.
Right off the top of my head? How about Star Wars: Empire vs. Rebellion or Age of War or Star Wars: Imperial Assault?
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InkSplat wrote:
Trump wrote:
FFG has quite the... habit... of releasing "new" games that seriously borrow from one of their old games. In some cases, it's just a re-skin of an old game with nothing at all changed. I am already speculating if that's the case here. Right now, the best contender seems to be Runewars. We don't have nearly enough information to really know anything at this point, but that's the current vibe I'm getting.

(By the way, I'm not saying that this is necessarily bad or anything.)
What game have they released thats a reskin of an old game with nothing at all changed? I can't think of a single instance of that.

Rex: Final Days of an Empire is essentially Dune
Star Wars: Imperial Assault is Descent: Journeys in the Dark (Second Edition)
Relic is of course Talisman (Revised 4th Edition)
I have heard that Runewars is very much like Twilight Imperium (Second Edition) or perhaps 1st edition.

Either way, the observation is pretty much valid.
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Trump wrote:
InkSplat wrote:
Trump wrote:
FFG has quite the... habit... of releasing "new" games that seriously borrow from one of their old games. In some cases, it's just a re-skin of an old game with nothing at all changed. I am already speculating if that's the case here. Right now, the best contender seems to be Runewars. We don't have nearly enough information to really know anything at this point, but that's the current vibe I'm getting.

(By the way, I'm not saying that this is necessarily bad or anything.)
What game have they released thats a reskin of an old game with nothing at all changed? I can't think of a single instance of that.
Right off the top of my head? How about Star Wars: Empire vs. Rebellion or Age of War or Star Wars: Imperial Assault?
Empire vs Rebellion and Age of War, I'll give you. I was thinking of big box games. Imperial Assault though? I'll have to disagree. It improves on Descent 2.0 in plenty of ways.
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Three or four reimplementations out of a hundred games in FFG's lineup hardly constitutes a trend or a "habit".

And the examples aren't necessarily perfect: Rex is only in the Twilight Imperium universe because the Herbert estate is super intense and won't give out rights to anyone. Otherwise they would have simply reprinted Dune and nobody would have said anything. Imperial Assault is, of course, a reimplementation of Descent, but it can hardly be called a "re-skin" given its substantial changes/improvements to the engine. Runewars is nothing like TI3 and can't be considered a reimplementation at all, and we all knew that Empire vs. Rebellion was largely just a mass-market cash cow. Not sure about the other examples as I don't have any experience with them, but yeah. Not enough solid examples to make a real argument about it.
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Jorgen Peddersen
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I think the only example given that qualifies is Age of War. Every other example had significant changes in the gameplay from their predecessor. Sure, the core mechanics remain, but the games do have significant differences. They don't qualify as "nothing at all changed", even if you ignore the thematic changes.

As examples, Empire vs. Rebellion gives separate decks and special faction-specific characters. Imperial Assault provides alternating turns and Skirmish capabilities. Rex is a shorter game than Dune, also allowing faster movement. Relic introduced the strategy card to the center among other things.
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Trump wrote:
FFG has quite the... habit... of releasing "new" games that seriously borrow from one of their old games (In some cases, it's just a re-skin of an old game with nothing at all changed). I am already speculating if that's the case here. Right now, the best contender seems to be Runewars. We don't have nearly enough information to really know anything at this point, but that's the current vibe I'm getting.

(By the way, I'm not saying that this is necessarily bad or anything.)
I'd say it's definitely in the same style as Twilight Imperium or Runewars, but mechanically it looks quite distinct. Have you read the product page?

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/products/star-wars-reb...

Click the link above, scroll down just a tad, then click on "Read More." These mechanics look pretty fresh to me.
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Sheesh! It may already be too late, but before this train totally goes off the tracks, we're starting to argue about something that's irrelevant. Can we get back to the OP's point? I happen to believe I know what it is...

Given their track record, this new game from FFG may very well borrow heavily from one of their old games. Is that the case here? Too early to really tell, but right now RuneWars SEEMS like the best candidate.
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Trump wrote:
Sheesh! It may already be too late, but before this train totally goes off the tracks, we're starting to argue about something that's irrelevant. Can we get back to the OP's point? I happen to believe I know what it is...

Given their track record, this new game from FFG may very well borrow heavily from one of their old games. Is that the case here? Too early to really tell, but right now RuneWars SEEMS like the best candidate.
I honestly can't think of a better way to sell a ton of this than, "It's StarWars" [sic to convey the connection].

That said, there are definitely differences between the two. And refining and adapting tried-and-true mechanisms and combining them in new ways seems like a good way to sell good games.
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I wish FFG would borrow heavily from and/or reskin older games more often.

Retheme Infiltration to Lovecraft, exploring a mansion or museum trying to gather clues and get out before you go insane.
Retheme the excellent Warhammer Invasion LCG mechanics to a standalone game in a different setting (anything but Warhammer).
Retheme/remake Condottiere and Colossal Arena.
Retheme Wings of War (oh wait, they already did that).
Retheme Kingsburg with a Lovecraft theme (wait, also done)

Personally I like the idea. If you don't like the bland theme of Kingdoms, get it with a Beowulf theme. Don't like a Beowulf adventure? Get it with a Hobbit theme. And if they can streamline the game and improve the mechanics, then all the better. Imperial Assault is a bit of an improvement on Doom, no?
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I could care less if it's a "reskin" of one of those old games. I've never played any of them. Besides that, if it's a good system, that can be adapted to a different subject matter than what's wrong with that?

My first wargame was Avalon Hill's D-Day. I followed that up with Stalingrad and Afrika Korps. They are all basically the A-Elim/D-Elim system. All the counters had attack, defense, and movement factors, and utilized NATO symbols. Yet they all had a different flavor, and all three ere great.
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I'm also suspicious of FFG but not for the reasons you cited. Their games tend to be overly large boxes full of plastic pieces and hundreds of counters, cards of all varieties, etc. which just makes for a busy table and a messy game. From the pictures this one looks less so but I'll take a wait and see approach. I wish they would just streamline their games a bit...
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Nath1975 wrote:
Rex: Final Days of an Empire is essentially Dune
Star Wars: Imperial Assault is Descent: Journeys in the Dark (Second Edition)
Relic is of course Talisman (Revised 4th Edition)
I have heard that Runewars is very much like Twilight Imperium (Second Edition) or perhaps 1st edition.

Either way, the observation is pretty much valid.
Forbidden Stars is Starcraft
Runewars is Battlemist
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SeerMagic wrote:
Nath1975 wrote:
Rex: Final Days of an Empire is essentially Dune
Star Wars: Imperial Assault is Descent: Journeys in the Dark (Second Edition)
Relic is of course Talisman (Revised 4th Edition)
I have heard that Runewars is very much like Twilight Imperium (Second Edition) or perhaps 1st edition.

Either way, the observation is pretty much valid.
Forbidden Stars is Starcraft
Runewars is Battlemist
They reprinted Dune, was never their game just OOP for 20 years.
SWIA is not Descent 2. Contains skirmish and plenty of rules tweaks.
Relic is changed Talisman, I'd agree.
Battlemist was revamped into Runewars.. but after 6 years.

Starcraft and Forbidden Stars are not similar. They use orders, like A Game of Thrones, Runewars etcetera. But all trappings, resources, combat etc is different.
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Ruud2009 wrote:

Battlemist was revamped into Runewars.. but after 6 years.
12 years, actually. 1998 -> 2010.
And a revamp is different to just reprinting the game with a different theme.
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Mike Ptak
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Card-driven dudes-on-a-map game with bases and a buildable death star that can vaporize planets?

And you guys forgot the Original Trilogy version of Star Wars Risk, which also does all of that?

Seems to me FFG is taking that idea and mashing it with notions from Forbidden Stars and some of their other recent games... pushing it out of being a simple Risk clone with odd mechanics and something more standalone.

It doesn't look like an obvious re-theme. At least of the games I know, I can't point to those things and these things being similar to any other game. Again, the only "copy-vibe" I get is from SWR:OT, and that's because it also dealt with a single death-star playing piece that blew up worlds, with dudes on a map and cards. Rebellion takes this some steps further, hopefully into being more interesting.
 
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Ruud2009 wrote:
Starcraft and Forbidden Stars are not similar. They use orders, like A Game of Thrones, Runewars etcetera. But all trappings, resources, combat etc is different.
They are very similar. Order system is exactly like starcraft, not like thrones. Things have been streamlined, but it's the same system. If they had the starcraft license, this would have been starcraft 2nd edition.
 
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SeerMagic wrote:
Ruud2009 wrote:
Starcraft and Forbidden Stars are not similar. They use orders, like A Game of Thrones, Runewars etcetera. But all trappings, resources, combat etc is different.
They are very similar. Order system is exactly like starcraft, not like thrones. Things have been streamlined, but it's the same system. If they had the starcraft license, this would have been starcraft 2nd edition.
And also, while the miniatures in Forbidden Stars are pretty cool in my opinion, they are not nearly as cool as Star Craft.

They are pretty similar though....
 
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noblejohn wrote:
SeerMagic wrote:
Ruud2009 wrote:
Starcraft and Forbidden Stars are not similar. They use orders, like A Game of Thrones, Runewars etcetera. But all trappings, resources, combat etc is different.
They are very similar. Order system is exactly like starcraft, not like thrones. Things have been streamlined, but it's the same system. If they had the starcraft license, this would have been starcraft 2nd edition.
And also, while the miniatures in Forbidden Stars are pretty cool in my opinion, they are not nearly as cool as Star Craft.

They are pretty similar though....
Actually the little flags and lack of abilities really pulled me out of the theme of Forbidden Stars. Starcraft has some of the best minis ever.
 
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SeerMagic wrote:
noblejohn wrote:
SeerMagic wrote:
Ruud2009 wrote:
Starcraft and Forbidden Stars are not similar. They use orders, like A Game of Thrones, Runewars etcetera. But all trappings, resources, combat etc is different.
They are very similar. Order system is exactly like starcraft, not like thrones. Things have been streamlined, but it's the same system. If they had the starcraft license, this would have been starcraft 2nd edition.
And also, while the miniatures in Forbidden Stars are pretty cool in my opinion, they are not nearly as cool as Star Craft.

They are pretty similar though....
Actually the little flags and lack of abilities really pulled me out of the theme of Forbidden Stars. Starcraft has some of the best minis ever.
I understand why you would feel this way....especially being a big fan of StarCraft. The flags are not nearly as cool as units. I am able to overcome these shortcomings because there is enough going on in the game to keep me entertained - but maybe after 3 to 5 plays I would change my mind.

There was also a card that came up for the Orks - How did we get here, that allowed that player to get an objective token with little effort - I was curious about the power of that particular card....
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Belisarius88 wrote:
I'm also suspicious of FFG but not for the reasons you cited. Their games tend to be overly large boxes full of plastic pieces and hundreds of counters, cards of all varieties, etc. which just makes for a busy table and a messy game. From the pictures this one looks less so but I'll take a wait and see approach. I wish they would just streamline their games a bit...

Forget that shit. They've streamlined too much in recent years. Bring on some intergalactic bloat. I've personally been waiting on an epic take on Star Wars board gaming for quite some time. BRING IT ON. And spare no frosting.
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Ruud2009 wrote:

They reprinted Dune, was never their game just OOP for 20 years.

I take offense to that notion. FFG did NOT reprint Dune.



They made a game vaguely like Dune, re-themed it, generated a flowchart map that looks like crap, and streamlined and mangled a lot of everything else.

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I think this is clearly a Re-Skin of Warhammer 40K: Forbidden Stars
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