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Subject: Looking for a good Dungeon Crawl rss

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Tomer Mlynarsky
Israel
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I've realized I still don't have any game that could count as a dungeon crawler in my collection despite my absolute love for the genere.

I'm looking for a good suggestion, here are my main issues:

1) Must be available for purchase by end of November. So a kickstarter game that will be around in a year or so won't do.

2) Must be playable with 2,3 or 4 players (I have several different gaming groups and would like to try at least once with each). It doesn't have to be optimized for those numbers, but at least playable.

3) As I'm going to buy it off retail, something that's out of print and can only be obtained for an absurd amount on Amazon or something is also likely not a good idea.

4) Replayability is a must for me. I guess I would define it as a game I can play 10-20 times and not feel like I'm completely bored out of it.

I would also prefer it if I can play the game and try at least 2-3 completely different strategies in different playing sessions. Example: More offensive, more defensive, more area control etc

5) I generally lean more towards a fantasy setting but if the game is good enough I can work with anything really as long it's not really "real life" themed - so basically Sci-Fi, Supernatural, Horror, Superheroes etc are also fine as opposed to something like a historical world war 2 theme game which I don't care much for.

6) Game has to be simple to learn. To stress this issue, I can't even get one of my groups to play Mage Wars Arena since they think flipping a 40 page spell book is too much of a hassle...

I don't mind insanely hard to master game so long as its easy to learn the rules.

7) I prefer games that can fill up between 90-180 minutes. Nothing longer. I don't mind shorter (if it's good enough, we'll just play twice).

8) Any form of play style would work. All of my groups do co-ops as well as PvP. Also no problem if it's with\without an overlord.

9) Absolutely no arts and crafts.
I'm terrible at this so if a game needs some extra assembly (like gluing stuff together) it's a huge NO for me. Seriously, I can't even stress how clumsy I am with these things.

10) No real time. Sadly, I love Escape, but one group hates it and the other don't use soundtrack.

11) No long downtime. I love Mage Knight as a solo or possibly 2 player game, but if I have to wait 10+ minutes for my turn my brain explodes.

Now, that being said, I've tried searching a bit online. I've read reviews and watched a lot of gameplay videos. I noticed that there are a lot of the same names people are suggesting but for each game something seems to really bother me.

So here's the list of common names I've seen people suggest and why I'm hesitant about them. If you think my impression is wrong, by all means feel free to correct me about it as I haven't played any of them.

And if you have another suggestion by all means it will be appreciated

Castle Ravenloft and the rest of the D&D games -
I actually love D&D 4e (still play it) but this game seems like it would repeat itself too much. Characters can only go up to level 2 and you don't have a lot of choices or different strategies to go by.

Descent - I know this is often the biggest name being mentioned often, but I've seen the WatchItPlayed video and it just didn't feel much like a dungeon crawl since you can see everything and anything. The fact that people talk all the time about an expansion that plays the monsters via an AI pretty much seems to me like they can be auto pilot without much thought. Also would you really like playing the same scenario more than once? Will the party composition really make a difference? Will the monsters make a huge deal?

Mice and Mystics My biggest concern here is whether or not the game might be too childish? Most people I've seen recommend it to younger people (all of my groups are people over 30). Also people talk a lot about the amazing plot and while that is not a negative, would the game work without the plot? Do you think playing the same scenario twice feel like fun if you already know the story?

Dungeon Run Sadly out of print. I read that there are talks about a second one coming but I doubt it will be out in time.

Claustrophobia Seems interesting mechanic, but sadly only 2 players.

Level 7 [Omega Protocol] Seems good. Not my favorite theme but it could work. Since there are no expansions planned and its been awhile I wonder if there ever will be. Does the game hold after many plays?

Legends of Andor Doesn't feel like a dungeon crawl as much as an adventure puzzle. While I like that sort of thing, I feel I have plenty of other similar games.

Myth Heard so many bad things about the rules


So any and all advice would be highly appreciated.
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James Arias
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Shadows of Brimstone comes up a lot too, as the spiritual successor to Warhammer Quest, only with a Wild West vs. Cthulhu type theme. I'm still on the fence about it. Gears of War is popular for sci-fi but I didn't like all the mechanics (I play StarQuest for sci-fi, OOP though).

I was looking at Wrath of Arshadalon but didn't like the map tiles (modular map is a tablestakes feature for me), plus it's D&D and we already have Dungeon!.

I checked out Dungeon Plungin for something kid-friendly. Heavier/more RPGesque than I was expecting, but some great ideas in there.

I also own DungeonQuest Revised but that's not the same kind of minis & tiles as some of those other titles.

I avoided Myth and M&M as they looked too scenario-driven ... I need more randomness
 
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We were also looking for a dungeon crawl a while back that my gaming group would enjoy. So we started of with Descent but that did not went so well. People did not really like the race to objective part of it.

After that we just looked around a bit and bought on a wim Super Dungeon Explore: Forgotten King and since then our group plays it very often. It is on the longer side though sometimes games can go up to 3 hours, but we do not mind long games.



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Matt Brown
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GrandMasterFox wrote:
Level 7 [Omega Protocol] Seems good. Not my favorite theme but it could work. Since there are no expansions planned and its been awhile I wonder if there ever will be. Does the game hold after many plays?
There's one coming that will be set in Russia.

DeadlyEd wrote:
I will toss in The Undercity: An Iron Kingdoms Adventure Board Game.

 
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Bryan Ruhe
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This question has been a tough one for me to answer for myself, as well.

You might consider Super Fantasy: Ugly Snounts Assault (there's also Super Fantasy: Night of the Badly Dead if skeletons are more your speed than tiki-like creatures). The mechanics look so refreshingly simple and straight-up fun when compared to many dungeon crawlers. This almost seems mores like Gauntlet: The Board Game. The art style may turn you off, though - I've been on the fence about it for a while now. It's a dungeon crawl that doesn't take itself seriously, that's for sure.

Space Hulk is my favorite "dungeon crawl" but strikes out on so many counts in regards to your list... 2-player only, and the 2nd-4th editions have lots of miniatures to assemble...

Dungeon Saga: Dwarf King's Quest looks somewhat promising, but I haven't gotten to play it and I'm not 100% certain as to its availability yet.

Then there's Arcadia Quest - I don't know too terribly much about it. I know it has a player vs. player aspect (which may or may not appeal to you). Not sure about scenarios and such.

This one absolutely doesn't meet your requirements since it's a Kickstarter but it still seems worth mentioning - Gloomhaven. This may be the dungeon crawl boardgame that "does it" for me. The mechanics seem streamlined and fairly simple, it has a unique campaign system with character progression, playtime is est. 30-45 min per player... If I had a time machine I'd warp to the future, nab two copies, warp back to this time and send one to you.
 
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Kai Bettzieche
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GrandMasterFox wrote:
Mice and Mystics My biggest concern here is whether or not the game might be too childish? Most people I've seen recommend it to younger people (all of my groups are people over 30). Also people talk a lot about the amazing plot and while that is not a negative, would the game work without the plot? Do you think playing the same scenario twice feel like fun if you already know the story?
Hi Tomer,

Regarding M&M:
While it is all about animals, the theme is rather grim und not exactly friendly for kids - at least not in my opinion.
It does not work without a scenario, though: Just throwing the mice in a pit and unleashing some monsters on them won't do it..
Which leads us to the downside: You are bound to the campaign and once you're through with it, there is no need to play it again. The scenarios are rather straight forward leaving little to no options for different approaches.



Kind regards,
Kai
 
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Allied HeroQuest! (www.toco.be/ahq)

1) Must be available for purchase by end of November. So a kickstarter game that will be around in a year or so won't do.

Both HeroQuest and Advanced HeroQuest are available at eBay for normal prices. Nowadays a new big game costs $100, you'll have both old Heroquests for $150.

2) Must be playable with 2,3 or 4 players (I have several different gaming groups and would like to try at least once with each). It doesn't have to be optimized for those numbers, but at least playable.

Works like a charm for 2 up to 5 players. The players can control multiple heroes and their henchmen.

3) As I'm going to buy it off retail, something that's out of print and can only be obtained for an absurd amount on Amazon or something is also likely not a good idea.

HeroQuest is often for grabs at garage sales. Advanced Heroquest is around $100 on eBay and others. A normal price for new games.

4) Replayability is a must for me. I guess I would define it as a game I can play 10-20 times and not feel like I'm completely bored out of it.

There are sooooo many quests, and each quest is different because of the denizens that roam the dungeons change every time.

I would also prefer it if I can play the game and try at least 2-3 completely different strategies in different playing sessions. Example: More offensive, more defensive, more area control etc

This is encouraged! Winning a game of Allied HeroQuest is quite a challenge. As it is supposed to be! A bunch of heroes entering the lair of monster hordes, it's normal they die! So: let's try that quest again, we'll win now!

5) I generally lean more towards a fantasy setting but if the game is good enough I can work with anything really as long it's not really "real life" themed - so basically Sci-Fi, Supernatural, Horror, Superheroes etc are also fine as opposed to something like a historical world war 2 theme game which I don't care much for.

Old World Warhammer Fantasy setting.

6) Game has to be simple to learn. To stress this issue, I can't even get one of my groups to play Mage Wars Arena since they think flipping a 40 page spell book is too much of a hassle...

I don't mind insanely hard to master game so long as its easy to learn the rules.

It uses all rules from the original HeroQuest game by MB. This was very simple to learn.

7) I prefer games that can fill up between 90-180 minutes. Nothing longer. I don't mind shorter (if it's good enough, we'll just play twice).

Allied HeroQuest aims at 1,5 hours and often goes up to 2,5 hours per quest.

8) Any form of play style would work. All of my groups do co-ops as well as PvP. Also no problem if it's with\without an overlord.

It's with an overlord. The other players can help eachother, or try to get rich themselves and hoard all items they can find. but the last option will most likely get them killed...

9) Absolutely no arts and crafts.
I'm terrible at this so if a game needs some extra assembly (like gluing stuff together) it's a huge NO for me. Seriously, I can't even stress how clumsy I am with these things.

Absolutely no extra arts nor craft needed except for printing the PDF rulebook.

10) No real time. Sadly, I love Escape, but one group hates it and the other don't use soundtrack.

Turn based.

11) No long downtime. I love Mage Knight as a solo or possibly 2 player game, but if I have to wait 10+ minutes for my turn my brain explodes.

Game turns switch between overlord and players. When it's the player's turn they decide who goes first. Sometimes you wish to wait, sometimes you can take your turn immediatelly. But most of the time downtime is very very little because not much happens in other player's turns except for fighting.
 
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Pasi Ojala
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Get the Imperial Assault Campaign module for Vassal from http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Star_Wars:_Imperial_Assault
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GrandMasterFox wrote:
Descent - I know this is often the biggest name being mentioned often, but I've seen the WatchItPlayed video and it just didn't feel much like a dungeon crawl since you can see everything and anything.
I can only talk about Imperial Assault. It comes with two games in the box: campaign game and skirmish.

In the campaign one imperial player plays against 1-4 rebel players. There will be from 11 to 14 missions in a campaign, there are 30 in the base game, so with the randomness of side missions available, with different heroes and imperial class decks, so even the missions you do play again will play differently. There are events - when the heroes open a door or activate a terminal, an event can reveal imperial forces that were there all along, or some other effects. There are also hidden choices for the imperial player, which increases replayability. So, you get 3-4 playthroughs without needing expansion. The missions have more or less varied objectives. A mission takes generally 1-3 hours. Each mission provides rewards, and both the rebels and imperial can purchase new items and skills throughout the campaign.

In skirmish you play one on one one-shot missions and can build your own squads and command card decks. The skirmish missions also have other objectives than defeating the opponents figures. A skirmish game takes around an hour.

The party composition surely makes a big difference in both the campaign and skirmish. Each hero / figure has some special abilities that change what is possible and what kind of strategy to use.

Imperial Assault is the first game I wanted to play so much that I'm playing it in Play By Forum.

If you don't want to play 1 vs all, then there's RedJak's Automated Imperial Variant (RAIV) V1.
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Simona Rex
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I strongly recommend Arcadia Quest
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crazybyzantine wrote:
Shadows of Brimstone comes up a lot too, ...
Sadly, this is out because of 9). Miniatures need to be assembled, and that is not an easy task for this game. Great game, but not for him.

Bye
Thanee
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esed wrote:
I strongly recommend Arcadia Quest
This man girl has the correct answer!
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Simona Rex
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ToThePointGames wrote:
esed wrote:
I strongly recommend Arcadia Quest
This man has the correct answer!
Although I am actually a girl, I am happy you like my suggestion
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esed wrote:
ToThePointGames wrote:
esed wrote:
I strongly recommend Arcadia Quest
This man has the correct answer!
Although I am actually a girl, I am happy you like my suggestion
fixed!
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Claudio Hornblower
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To recap...
1) Available NOW
2) 2-4 players
3) No vintage 200$ nonsense
4) High replay value
5) Fantasy or lullabies
6) Simple rules
7) 90-180 mins playtime
8) Coop or competitive
9) No extra assembly
10) No real time
11) No Mage Knight Awesomeness

Mmh. Have a look at:
- Darkest Night (consider some expansions); coop dark fantasy quest, keep stealthy and kill the evil lord and his minions;
- Dungeonquest; a fantasy PvP/PvE romp in a dungeon full of crazy random nastiness; you could die on your first turn;
- Super Fantasy; could work for somebody, but not for me; it does exist however;
- Baldrick's Tomb; easy and silly;
- Those Pesky Humans; the same, with something bit more;
- Gears of War; a serious sci-fi aliens kick-butting coop like in the videogames, and like them, it's all about killing
- Tomb Cryptmaster is the right version of Tomb; I dunno if it's still in print
- Zombicide; how could I forget? Coop dungeoncrawler american-style at its best!

On your choices:
- D&D franchise is a simple streamlined AD&D experience, the big point is that the mobs are divided among all the players and are ruled by a simple, yet effective AI

- Descent is plain awesome but as you say, it's not a dungeoncrawler the slightest; it's a tactical fantasy adventure that shines in the long run; forget about playing a scenario and then goodbye or else you'll miss the whole point of this (great) game

- Mice & Mystics' biggest problem is the replay value; you could create/download other stories but surely it's a game with a clock, like Sherlock Holmes or other highly thematic, story-driven games

...Not a "dungeon"crawl but, did you know that Runebound 3rd edition is out, yes?
 
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Matthew Peckham
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I think the newest D&D adventure game, Dungeons & Dragons: Temple of Elemental Evil Board Game is a step above the rest in terms of longevity, so that might be worth checking out.

Level 7 [Omega Protocol] is a fantastic game, if you can get past the theming. And yes, a new expansion was announced for it today.
 
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Tomer Mlynarsky
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Wow guys, thanks a lot

I guess I forgot to mention, the reason I wanted to order by end of November is due to Black Friday discounts. So non retail options is probably less likely to be it this time around.

crazybyzantine wrote:
Shadows of Brimstone comes up a lot too
I looked into it, but saw the miniatures required assembly also from what I've seen in reviews, people said the game gets repetitive fast.
(Again, could be wrong)

matthean wrote:

There's one coming that will be set in Russia.
Oh Sweet! Didn't see anything on its forum

DeadlyEd wrote:
I'll check that out

bryanruhe wrote:

You might consider Super Fantasy: Ugly Snounts Assault (there's also Super Fantasy: Night of the Badly Dead if skeletons are more your speed than tiki-like creatures).
Oh, we'll check those out. Thanks

bryanruhe wrote:

Dungeon Saga: Dwarf King's Quest looks somewhat promising, but I haven't gotten to play it and I'm not 100% certain as to its availability yet.
CSI says it's still pre orders, but also say it will be out this month. We'll have to wait and see.

bryanruhe wrote:

Then there's Arcadia Quest - I don't know too terribly much about it. I know it has a player vs. player aspect (which may or may not appeal to you). Not sure about scenarios and such.
Heard of this. Didn't think about it. Will look into it.

schattentanz wrote:
You are bound to the campaign and once you're through with it, there is no need to play it again. The scenarios are rather straight forward leaving little to no options for different approaches.

Kind regards,
Kai
Thanks for your input. I think it really means it's not the game for me.

tocoking wrote:
Allied HeroQuest! (www.toco.be/ahq)
Thank you very much, but sadly for me, international shipping is usually not worth it over eBay. Also as weird as it might sound, I have never seen garage sales in my life (other than tv). I guess it's not much of a thing in my country.

a1bert wrote:

I can only talk about Imperial Assault. It comes with two games in the box: campaign game and skirmish.
Oh, haven't heard of that one. From the brief description I've seen from reviewers it's basically Descent with slight upgrade mechanics and a star wars theme?

I'll have to add this to the list

esed wrote:
I strongly recommend Arcadia Quest
Oh, I've heard of it but didn't think of it.
If I remember it was on WatchItPlayed, I'll look it up again

Mythologem wrote:

Mmh. Have a look at
Thanks! I'll look into those as well.

Mythologem wrote:

...Not a "dungeon"crawl but, did you know that Runebound 3rd edition is out, yes?
Actually I'm not familiar with this game or any of its previous versions


velvetvoulge wrote:
I think the newest D&D adventure game, Dungeons & Dragons: Temple of Elemental Evil Board Game is a step above the rest in terms of longevity, so that might be worth checking out.
Mind if I ask what makes it different than the rest?

velvetvoulge wrote:

Level 7 [Omega Protocol] is a fantastic game, if you can get past the theming. And yes, a new expansion was announced for it today.
I'm certainly getting warmer to it.

Once again thank you all for all your input
You've given me a lot of interesting games here, I'll have to go over those.
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Pasi Ojala
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Get the Imperial Assault Campaign module for Vassal from http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Star_Wars:_Imperial_Assault
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GrandMasterFox wrote:
a1bert wrote:

I can only talk about Imperial Assault. It comes with two games in the box: campaign game and skirmish.
Oh, haven't heard of that one. From the brief description I've seen from reviewers it's basically Descent with slight upgrade mechanics and a star wars theme?
Basically Descent 2e developed to fit the Star Wars setting with a lot of small but important changes to actions, damage/strain, turn structure (alternating activations), changes to how overlord plays, new campaign structure, and the best of all: the skirmish mode. Most of the changes are of course a matter of taste and debatable.

There are a few threads comparing Descent and IA in the IA forums.
 
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Krosmaster: Quest?
 
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GrandMasterFox wrote:
velvetvoulge wrote:
I think the newest D&D adventure game, Dungeons & Dragons: Temple of Elemental Evil Board Game is a step above the rest in terms of longevity, so that might be worth checking out.
Mind if I ask what makes it different than the rest?
It features a 'real' campaign system, so your heroes improve from scenario to scenario, collect items, etc.
 
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Tomer Mlynarsky
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a1bert wrote:

There are a few threads comparing Descent and IA in the IA forums.
Thanks, I'll check it out.

tocoking wrote:
It's out? I couldn't find it anywhere. I saw people on the Quest board complaining about it. I actually have most of the Krosmaster Arena stuff, was looking forward to check this out.

jhaelen wrote:
GrandMasterFox wrote:
velvetvoulge wrote:
I think the newest D&D adventure game, Dungeons & Dragons: Temple of Elemental Evil Board Game is a step above the rest in terms of longevity, so that might be worth checking out.
Mind if I ask what makes it different than the rest?
It features a 'real' campaign system, so your heroes improve from scenario to scenario, collect items, etc.
Oh, that sounds nice. But does that work with the others in the series?
 
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I'd definitely be curious to hear from anyone who's played Gloomhaven or Perdition's Mouth (especially the latter).
 
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You might consider Galaxy Defenders. It is a sci-fi dungeon crawlish game, but plays 1-5 players against a pretty good AI. While you can't get some of the kickstarter figures anymore, Ares games does have the stats/skills for all of the promo heroes available on their website, so it would be easy to proxy them as necessary. It has a couple of good expansions as well, and isn't horribly expensive.

It is meant to be played in a campaign mode, but does have rules for doing any of the scenarios as a one-off, and it has enough variability both in what happens and in character building to be a bit different each time.
 
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GrandMasterFox wrote:
Oh, that sounds nice. But does that work with the others in the series?
Well, you could definitely use heroes from the other sets. Adding monsters from other sets might require some thought. In ToEE you can encounter monster groups, so some of them might result in too tough encounters. Later in the campaign in ToEE you use tougher variants of the monsters, so that changes things again.

It would probably be best to start a discussion here at BGG if you plan on adding material from other sets. Myself I do almost no mixing.

Actually, I think there's already a thread or two discussing this over at the game's page.
 
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Claudio Hornblower
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Keep an eye on this (check this thread for more pics):

 
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Tomer Mlynarsky
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Just wanted to say thanks again to everyone's reply.

Eventually I went Imperial Assault since apparently the theme struck a lot more than I expected with my group. I'm guessing the movie puts people in the mood.

I also grabbed Temple of Elemental Evil since the discount on CSI was pretty decent.

Also, thanks for the recommendations on Arcadia Quest. I don't think it's the type of game I was looking for here, but looks sweet enough I pledged for the new kickstarter.

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