Jayson Myers
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Please check out my other reviews at:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/145695/item/2728438#it...



Conclusion:

The Grizzled is likely over hyped right now. It is a fun cooperative game, but it is way too hard to be a classic. As great and fun as it may be, it will frustrate a lot of gamers to not want to play it. I fear it is destined to have a fandom that loves it, but that will shun a lot of players.

I'm also not always sure the game is fair. This huge issue where you draw cards based on how many are in your hands, but you draw cards blindly. With a great draw, this is no problem. With a bad draw, you just lost. I'm not sure how to dig myself out of this. Yet, I keep wanting to play this over and over. And my frustration grows. And nobody wants to keep getting beat.

You can't really play this solo. I love cooperative games because I can normally play them solo. With The Grizzled, if I know what the other players have it is too much of an advantage. Yet, even open hands I can't seem to beat this beast.

Yes, I've yet to win this game. It is super hard. The art will keep you interested, but I've yet to feel like I'm in the game. I'm sure this is because I keep playing it with different groups, but I'm eager to get close one of these times. I like how we are trying to get rid of cards so you think you should draw a bunch, but there is a second deck that cannot run out that penalizes you if you can't get rid of cards. This back and forth is brilliant. And a downside of the game as it is so frustrating! Ha. Maybe in a good way.

And this back and forth is how I feel about this game. It makes me want to play it but I always leave frustrated. I'm hoping with more plays this will simmer down. I don't like a cooperative game that I feel is set up against me to be artificially hard. I don't want it to be easy, but I don't want to win either based on the draw of the cards. Now, this games gives me ways to make it easier for me. For example using the support tokens. But if I "guess" wrong, I just wasted that support card. There is a huge balance to this game and I hope to get better at it.

I hope I don't sound too negative. This is a really fun game. The theme is great and one we don't see a lot in this sort of game. The back story is fantastic. I love cooperative games. And yet I find myself unsure. I need to know I can win it sometime. The first time I won Friday was fantastic, but I always felt I was getting better at that game and making it a little bit further. In Robinson Carouse, I was able to win sometimes and figure out strategies. The jury is out here, but I keep wanting to play. Matter of fact, I'm going to go play a game now!

Keeper.




Components:

The components are good. The art is fantastic. It has a unique style to it. The support tokens and all the card board is really thick. The cards are very well made and I love the look of this game. I get that art is subjective, but I really like the way it looks.



Rule Book:

The rules are fairly well written. The art in the book is great and did not distract from reading. The rules are pretty straight forward and I highly recommend ignoring the traps the first few times you play (as the rule book recommends). The rules are presented in a great order and are easy to read. This book can be read in minutes and I didn't have any issues.



Flow of the Game:

Goal of the Game: To get all of the cards off the peace card and have zero cards in the hands of all the players.

Flow: The game plays with players taking turns playing a card or taking another action. You are playing cards down that have two different properties: both an icon and a background. If either 3 icons or backgrounds are ever face up, then the "round" is a bust and the cards get shuffled back in. If all players pass and 3 of a kind is not face up, those cards are out of the game. The hook is whatever number of cards are in the player's hands at the end of the "round" are put in the peace deck.

Player turn:

1. Preparation:

A. Mission leader decides how many cards to deal to each of the players.

2. Mission: Players attempt to get rid of all the cards in their hands. Players take turns discarding cards face up in a row. If there are ever 3 icons/backgrounds that match, the players bust and those cards are dealt back into it. If all players "withdraw" (same as passing) or use up all their cards (yeah right!), then they move to the next phase and the cards face up are discarded from the game.

Possible actions:

a. Play a card face up (see above)
b. Good luck charm - each player has good luck charm they can use once to discard a card that has been played face up (you can get your charm back sometimes)
c. Make a speech - You call out an icon/background and everyone can discard one from their hand (these are very very limited and so useful)
d. Withdraw play a support tile (see below)

3. Support - Once the mission is over, any player that withdrew can now flip over their support token. This will pass the support token to another player. If a player has the majority of support tokens, they can get rid of two bad cards or flip over their good luck charm (told ya you could get it back!).

4. Morale Drop - total up the # of cards in the players hands and transfer that many cards from the reserve deck to the current deck of cards. Min of 3 cards.

You continue to do this until you lose the game. Er...win or lose.






Should I buy this game?:

So far, I like it enough to keep it, but the jury may still be out. I would recommend this for fans of card games and fans of cooperative games. You can play this with new gamers or non-gamers. There is a lot to like here, but I've found the game so freaking hard that some may not like that. The game limits talking around the table so that may turn some off. Otherwise, a nice little card game.

Keeper.
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Re: The Purge: # 868 The Grizzled: A war game with cards that is cooperative...wait...it just has a war theme...a survivial theme?
Great review. Funny, though, we don't consider this a hard game at all to win.

We've lost at Pandemic, been unable to win when playing Butterfield's D-Day at Omaha Beach, and simply hate on Ghost Stories (what, 20+ plays and never a single win?), and yet we won our first three-player game of The Grizzled with two cards remaining on the monument pile. Regular rules, no cheating. So it's quite possible to win, I assure you.
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Jayson Myers
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Re: The Purge: # 868 The Grizzled: A war game with cards that is cooperative...wait...it just has a war theme...a survivial theme?
DaveyJJ wrote:
Great review. Funny, though, we don't consider this a hard game at all to win.

We've lost at Pandemic, been unable to win when playing Butterfield's D-Day at Omaha Beach, and simply hate on Ghost Stories (what, 20+ plays and never a single win?), and yet we won our first three-player game of The Grizzled with two cards remaining on the monument pile. Regular rules, no cheating. So it's quite possible to win, I assure you.
We finally won a 3 player game last night playing without traps. I think it is safe to say we would have lost with traps. We may have cheated one time, but I'll never tell. The board/game has no idea.
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Enon Sci
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Re: The Purge: # 868 The Grizzled: A war game with cards that is cooperative...wait...it just has a war theme...a survivial theme?
Two quick questions:

1. Did you like Ghost Stories? Or, at the least, did you find this harder than Ghost Stories? My group digs a challenge, of which Ghost Stories (and Robinson Crusoe) leads the list.

2. The seems designed for 3+, despite accommodating 2. Any chance you have insight on how well it plays as a couples game?
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Jayson Myers
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Anarchosyn wrote:
Two quick questions:

1. Did you like Ghost Stories? Or, at the least, did you find this harder than Ghost Stories? My group digs a challenge, of which Ghost Stories (and Robinson Crusoe) leads the list.

2. The seems designed for 3+, despite accommodating 2. Any chance you have insight on how well it plays as a couples game?
I've played Ghost Stories mostly on the IPad. I do enjoy it, but it is the hardest game I've ever played

Ghost Stories is harder.

This is more like Robinson C., where it is hard but beatable. Friday is the closer fit for me though.

I've played it two player and it works okay. I feel 3-4 is the money spot. With 3 being the best.
 
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Jim Marshall
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The reasons you prefer other co-op games over The Grizzled are paradoxically the reasons I prefer The Grizzled over (say) Pandemic.

I like a co-op game that provides a challenge. I know a group of excellent Pandemic players who have to stick a lot of the death cards (I forgot what they're called) in the deck to raise the challenge.

I don't like playing co-ops that can be soloed with groups, due to the oft-quoted tendency for the alpha gamer who is expert in the game and a dominant personality to try to make everyone's moves for them. That the Grizzled makes everyone make their own decisions without being able to compare hands is a big plus for me. You need to read what the other players are doing and hope everyone s on the same page regarding what threats to play and to whom cups of coffee are given.

Totally agree with your comments on theme, art and wanting to come back for more tho'!
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william4192 wrote:

I've played it two player and it works okay. I feel 3-4 is the money spot. With 3 being the best.
I have to disagree here. Forget about the game with two - yes, it mechanically works, but its a different (boring) game.

If you play it a bit more, you will see that it's way too easy with three. There are different reasons for this, one of them that you still know a (too) large portion of the cards in play, another that it's too easy to support the "right" person.

The game really becomes what it strives to be with 4 and 5 players, where it becomes not only much harder, but you have to anticipate each others moves and needs. I absolutely love the game for that aspect, because once you see through its basically simple mechanisms, it's the only solo game i know of that successfully achieves that (and avoids any alpha-player problems). I can't see how it's "hyped" - it actually IS that good... for me.
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Jayson Myers
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Jim Marshall wrote:
The reasons you prefer other co-op games over The Grizzled are paradoxically the reasons I prefer The Grizzled over (say) Pandemic.

I like a co-op game that provides a challenge. I know a group of excellent Pandemic players who have to stick a lot of the death cards (I forgot what they're called) in the deck to raise the challenge.

I don't like playing co-ops that can be soloed with groups, due to the oft-quoted tendency for the alpha gamer who is expert in the game and a dominant personality to try to make everyone's moves for them. That the Grizzled makes everyone make their own decisions without being able to compare hands is a big plus for me. You need to read what the other players are doing and hope everyone s on the same page regarding what threats to play and to whom cups of coffee are given.

Totally agree with your comments on theme, art and wanting to come back for more tho'!
I agree with what you are saying. The problem is that makes the game work best with good players. I play a lot with non-gamers or lighter gamers and this makes the game really hard for our group. And not enjoyable. We did play it again (without traps) and won. Yeah! I don't want to win overtime, but I do want it to be close and full of tension.
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Jayson Myers
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Benji68 wrote:
william4192 wrote:

I've played it two player and it works okay. I feel 3-4 is the money spot. With 3 being the best.
I have to disagree here. Forget about the game with two - yes, it mechanically works, but its a different (boring) game.

If you play it a bit more, you will see that it's way too easy with three. There are different reasons for this, one of them that you still know a (too) large portion of the cards in play, another that it's too easy to support the "right" person.

The game really becomes what it strives to be with 4 and 5 players, where it becomes not only much harder, but you have to anticipate each others moves and needs. I absolutely love the game for that aspect, because once you see through its basically simple mechanisms, it's the only solo game i know of that successfully achieves that (and avoids any alpha-player problems). I can't see how it's "hyped" - it actually IS that good... for me.
That might be the big difference between us. I don't want a game to smash me like Ghost Stories. 3 player is a good fit. I would go 4. Unlikely to go 5. It just gets too hard.
 
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Matthew Simpson
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Agree with Jayson here...

I gave the game a quick read over, thought it was simple and would be fun to introduce to my family.

Quickly it was over their heads... It is not a problem with the cards, or a problem with the time to use speeches... It is all about the "coffee"... If it is used incorrectly, you are DONE.

The other weird thing, we just happened to all draw the same "random" piece. As such it was incredibly hard to get the pieces we needed into the right people's hands...

I will try it one more time with a more experienced group... but I have a suspicion that this is going to be a fail.
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Gilles Daquin
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william4192 wrote:

The components are good. The art is fantastic. It has a unique style to it.

Keeper.
Just to mention, Art is from Tignous murdered in Paris during the Charlie Hebdo attack, 7th of January 2015, France.



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Tifast wrote:
william4192 wrote:

The components are good. The art is fantastic. It has a unique style to it.

Keeper.
Just to mention, Art is from Tignous murdered in Paris during the Charlie Hebdo attack, 7th of January 2015, France.



sobluesobluesobluesoblue
 
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