Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
17 Posts

Dungeon Saga: Dwarf King's Quest» Forums » Rules

Subject: Line of Sight-Adventurers Companion Edition rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Brad P
msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Looks like they messed up the Shooting LOS rules:

A model can only Shoot things
in front of it. When measuring
the range, use the straight edge
of the range stick to see if there
is anything blocking the line of
sight between any part of the
shooter’s base and any part of
the target’s base. Line of sight
is blocked by any square that
contains a miniature or a wall
(a blank space not taken up
by tiles). If the line of sight is
blocked, or the target is behind
the shooter, then they cannot
shoot!


That says check if an object is blocking the straight line from any point in the in the shooter base (square sized equal to tile square) to any part of the targets base. That seems pretty restrictive. Normal center to center is standard or if you can see any part of the target you can shoot but that explicitly says every part of you has to be able to see every part of him. That is pretty restrictive and not how it was in the beta or alpha rules;


So the elf cannot shoot the axe and shield ork because their exists at least one line that goes through the Great Axe square.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ben Turner
Australia
Melbourne
VIC
flag msg tools
From the dark depths of the ancient ocean, a kindly cetacean spirit with a penchant for board games and dumb made up bios
badge
I like themes. I like stories. I like plastic. I like brutal co-ops. I am kickstarter's whipping boy. Come game with me!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm guessing they meant "any part of the shooters base" to mean pick the part most beneficial to the shooter to ensure a line of sight, as opposed to "ALL parts of the shooters base" which would be the interpretation you have above.

I believe the rules are fully clarified on page xxx (sorry, couldn't help myself)

5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brad P
msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Phantomwhale wrote:
I'm guessing they meant "any part of the shooters base" to mean pick the part most beneficial to the shooter to ensure a line of sight, as opposed to "ALL parts of the shooters base" which would be the interpretation you have above.

I believe the rules are fully clarified on page xxx (sorry, couldn't help myself)

I think the "anys" work fine it you are specifically looking for the unblocked path. That is not what they have you doing here.

If you write:

A model can only Shoot things
in front of it. When measuring
the range, use the straight edge
of the range stick to see if there
is nothing blocking the line of
sight between any part of the
shooter’s base and any part of
the target’s base. Line of sight
is blocked by any square that
contains a miniature or a wall
(a blank space not taken up
by tiles). If the line of sight is
blocked, or the target is behind
the shooter, then they cannot
shoot!

Changed Anything to nothing and but that still does not seem correct.

A model can only Shoot things
in front of it. When measuring
the range, use the straight edge
of the range stick to see if there
is nothing blocking the line of
sight between a part of the
shooter’s base and a part of
the target’s base. Line of sight
is blocked by any square that
contains a miniature or a wall
(a blank space not taken up
by tiles). If the line of sight is
blocked, or the target is behind
the shooter, then they cannot
shoot!

Maybe that is better but still seems an issue.

A model can only Shoot things
in front of it. When measuring
the range, use the straight edge
of the range stick to see if there
is nothing blocking the line of
sight between at least one point on the
shooter’s base and at least one point on
the target’s base. Line of sight
is blocked by any square that
contains a miniature or a wall
(a blank space not taken up
by tiles). If the line of sight is
blocked, or the target is behind
the shooter, then they cannot
shoot!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Martin Vetter
Denmark
Hilleroed
flag msg tools
I was confused here as well. But the intention is clear: that you check from any part of base to any part of base for CLEAR line of sight.

eriochrome wrote:
Phantomwhale wrote:
I'm guessing they meant "any part of the shooters base" to mean pick the part most beneficial to the shooter to ensure a line of sight, as opposed to "ALL parts of the shooters base" which would be the interpretation you have above.

I believe the rules are fully clarified on page xxx (sorry, couldn't help myself)

I think the "anys" work fine it you are specifically looking for the unblocked path. That is not what they have you doing here.

If you write:

A model can only Shoot things
in front of it. When measuring
the range, use the straight edge
of the range stick to see if there
is nothing blocking the line of
sight between any part of the
shooter’s base and any part of
the target’s base. Line of sight
is blocked by any square that
contains a miniature or a wall
(a blank space not taken up
by tiles). If the line of sight is
blocked, or the target is behind
the shooter, then they cannot
shoot!

Changed Anything to nothing and but that still does not seem correct.

A model can only Shoot things
in front of it. When measuring
the range, use the straight edge
of the range stick to see if there
is nothing blocking the line of
sight between a part of the
shooter’s base and a part of
the target’s base. Line of sight
is blocked by any square that
contains a miniature or a wall
(a blank space not taken up
by tiles). If the line of sight is
blocked, or the target is behind
the shooter, then they cannot
shoot!

Maybe that is better but still seems an issue.

A model can only Shoot things
in front of it. When measuring
the range, use the straight edge
of the range stick to see if there
is nothing blocking the line of
sight between at least one point on the
shooter’s base and at least one point on
the target’s base. Line of sight
is blocked by any square that
contains a miniature or a wall
(a blank space not taken up
by tiles). If the line of sight is
blocked, or the target is behind
the shooter, then they cannot
shoot!
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brad P
msg tools
mbmbmbmb
magikerendk wrote:
I was confused here as well. But the intention is clear: that you check from any part of base to any part of base for CLEAR line of sight.

I think as written it actually says the opposite of what they mean.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nevin Ball
United States
New York
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Waiting for the "game bubble."
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It looks like the LOS rules work the same as Star Wars Miniatures game which works well.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brad P
msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Nevin wrote:
It looks like the LOS rules work the same as Star Wars Miniatures game which works well.
Please provide the text used to describe it from that game. I once saw it on really good sale but FFG gets enough of my money for X-Wing and what is not spent there disney gets through star wars legos.

My point is that because of the excessive use of "any" in the context of looking for things blocking line of sight the rule as written means the exact opposite of what they intend. You and I both know that in my example drawing that you are supposed to be able to shoot either orc but you cannot deny that I found two points that have a blocked path and both of those points are part of the groups "any".

I was actually looking at the section to try to figure out about diagonal type issue where what I really see is the corner. I could not move to the square since those rules are clear but since just the basic rule appears to be open to such wildly different interpretations, I did not know how to proceed on the actual question which is really does the line of sight blocking for models and object go all the way to the intersection with the next square or is it considered limited to "within the square".

If the intersections are included in blocking you cannot shoot someone where all clear lines go through their squares corner but if they are not than you can.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
King of the Wood
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
mb
Mattin Vetter has it right. Go with that and get playing.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brad P
msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Troll66 wrote:
Mattin Vetter has it right. Go with that and get playing.
Slow Boat from China.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Cutthroat Cardboard (Barry)
Scotland
Edinburgh
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Troll66 wrote:
Mattin Vetter has it right. Go with that and get playing.
Is that meant to be some kind of official reply?

As Eriochrome has pointed out as written the line of sight rules are incredibly restrictive. I also think that they meant there to be line of sight if there was any unblocked line from square to square, but that's not what it says.....

Some useful examples would probably have cleared it up.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brad P
msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Skipp wrote:
Troll66 wrote:
Mattin Vetter has it right. Go with that and get playing.
Is that meant to be some kind of official reply?

As Eriochrome has pointed out as written the line of sight rules are incredibly restrictive. I also think that they meant there to be line of sight if there was any unblocked line from square to square, but that's not what it says.....

Some useful examples would probably have cleared it up.
I rewrote the rule to mean what they want it to mean in my FAQ. I have yet to add some pictures but I probably will soon.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brad P
msg tools
mbmbmbmb
I had to revise my diagonal shooting being allowed since I was incorrectly reading the green menace rule. So you cannot shoot through a diagonal space that you could not move through when both objects are line of site blocking. Ofcourse that is a really bad way of phrasing it so I just extended the line of sight blocking all the way to the squares edges and not having to cross the through the square which combines with the proper pick 2 points and make a line gets the proper result without a special case listing.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
C B
United States
Twin Cities
Minnesota
flag msg tools
flying
badge
dutchman
Avatar
Microbadge: Civilization fanMicrobadge: Council of Blackthorn fanMicrobadge: Doctor Who fan - Peter Davison, 5th DoctorMicrobadge: Allegiance: A Realm Divided fanMicrobadge: "We must be as stealthy as rats in the wainscoting of their society."
Yeah, like that's clear. You might as well be an adult from Peanuts.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brad P
msg tools
mbmbmbmb


Elf in the back can only shoot the orc with the green line. He cannot shot the orc on the left since he cannot shot through the diagonal with both corners occupied. He cannot shot the orc on the right due just the corner but if moves such that the red line crosses his square (forward or to the left one square) he could.
2 
 Thumb up
0.02
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Cutthroat Cardboard (Barry)
Scotland
Edinburgh
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
So you would have line of sight if you can draw a line, not blocked by a wall or blocking terrain, from any corner of the attackers square to any non corner area of the defenders square?

I think this covers off both corner examples in the diagram and is used in some other tactical combat games. It does however allow very shallow angled shots along a wall to targets in the first square around a corner. I don't think this is a problem but players need to be aware of this.

I did ponder whether once line of sight is expanded to this degree the game could do with a concept of cover to penalize the more dificult shots? Where you can't draw a line from one corner of the attackers square to all corners of a targets square increase the defenders dice by 1 to a maximum of 6 then increase their armour by 1?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brad P
msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Obviously this rule is just my conjecture based on a revised reading of the Green Menace shooting rules after some told me I missed a figure caption which in my eyes says the exact opposite of what the figure does if you are trying to draw the figure to be clear and informative. Since As I originally note the base rule is written wrong which makes it hard to figure out how to apply it when you get to these situations.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sir Gaulen de Loria
Spain
flag msg tools
mbmb
eriochrome wrote:


Elf in the back can only shoot the orc with the green line. He cannot shot the orc on the left since he cannot shot through the diagonal with both corners occupied. He cannot shot the orc on the right due just the corner but if moves such that the red line crosses his square (forward or to the left one square) he could.

You can attack the minion on the left. It's in the FAQ (2017) - (EDIT - Maybe you can't, not sure, need confirmation)

What I don't now yet if, when measuring range, you can pick attacker's corner to defender's corner (as in descent 2). Can you attack this way or line should go into the defender's square. The trick is "from any part to any part" in the rules. A corner is a part of the square base so.... Don't know. Any new ideas?



 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls