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Subject: Torpedos in the game? rss

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Hi:

I am on the fence regarding buying this game. It looks like it is right up my alley. I think the person who I usually game with would like this game as well.

I have been looking at the video reviews and information in the forums(thanks to those who have made the videos especially Cody and Dan, albeit while they have raised some good questions about the "fiddliness" (sic) of the game, they also put me on the fence).

In my reading and video watching, I have seen no mention of firing torpedoes. I have seen a discussion of mines laid, but since these are diesel subs, it is likely they did carry torpedoes.

Can torpedoes be used against the resupply ships? Moreover, if one is bold enough can they be fired against the destroyers? For example: say one sub is pinpointed and the other comes to his aid by firing on the destroyer that is doing a seach.

It seems this would make the game more realistic and way more intense.
Just a thought.

Another thought on a reprint (in addition to better tracking of movement and starting fuel stats for Soviet ships, etc.), would be a modular board, which would open the game up for more alternative replay value.

Thanks for you reply.
WLM
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Yes, the subs did carry torpedoes, but the setting is 1970s cold war. A ship running into a mine and a chemical or dockside storage plant blowing up would be more deniable than an act of outright agression that torpedo'ing an enemy ship.

Starting fuel stats is 100% on the destroyer boards - the logistics fleet have more than enough fuel on board to last the game.

Have you seen my movement tracker in the file section? Is that what you had in mind?

EDIT - have a look at the rulebook - it's in the files section too.n it's accessible from here: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1425504/they-come-unseen-ru...
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Microbadge: "I have a cunning plan, my Lord!"Microbadge: I play both wargames and eurosMicrobadge: Economic Games fan - Money never sleeps, palMicrobadge: Without Me it's just AwesoMicrobadge: Titan fan
Yes:

It is a great conceptual game.

I am asking this question in terms of the game play and options offered to the sub commander.

I am just saying that a torpedo is an option to the commander. While these may not be the stated orders, they could be a means to accomplish those goals.

Moreover, it would open the game up to further scenarios and variants of play which would increase the game's longevity.

Maybe considering distance, time, and movement, and the loss of stealth, a torpedo rule could possibly be included.

Thank you for your reply.
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Nick Case
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Two words to answer your question and a reason for it, No and Balance.

No you can't torpedo ships because if you could then NATO would win every time.

I think a game that allowed the subs to fire torpedoes would be a totally different game. Go for it, design away. This game is excellent as it is. The addition of torpedoes would not improve it, quite the opposite.
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Leon Stansfield
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Preliminary: Believe Big Bad Lex! He’s totally right and every single word hits the nail on the head.

WLMIV wrote:
It seems this would make the game more realistic
I don't think so. It was the Cold War. No one could risk an open confrontation back in those years. It was threatening enough to unsettle the enemy by presence. You only had to convince him that you are always there, that you are always watching and that you are always ready to fire. If someone had pressed the wrong button then fireworks had burned the world.

WLMIV wrote:
Another thought on a reprint (in addition to better tracking of movement and starting fuel stats for Soviet ships, etc.), would be a modular board, which would open the game up for more alternative replay value.
I would love to see this implementation! That would raise the game to a completely different level. But TCU provides already a very high standard. It is fully developed (no growing child, quite the contrary, it is fully grown). Give it a try - it's definitely worth it.
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I was suggesting that the Cold War went hot.

Not having read the rules but having seen the reviews, I wondered that since this was a game about subs there might be rules for torpedoes.

In contrast to the point that firing torpedoes would be an act of war, wouldn't the act of laying mines in an enemy's territorial waters be an act of war? Wouldn't the act of blowing up an enemy's base be an act of war? No?

My suggestion about torpedoes was that there might be a mechanic like the mines whereby course, distance, and time, might be the means of firing a spread into a hex where a Soviet ship might cross and cause damage to that ship. Of course, there would be a disadvantage to doing this.

I realize that sinking enemy ships is not the tactical objective of the sub in this simulation. However, it would make sense for a sub that is pinned by a destroyer that is actively depth charging it to fire torpedoes at an enemy destroyer to give its sister sub a chance (for example). (I realize now that this would affect the balance of the game. However, this is possibly a logical action, especially if one considers that was is occurring is an act of war).

In my question I am wondering about replay-ability. My suggestion of a modular board and torpedoes only adds to that discussion. The game is printed and so that will not happen. The game is a naval simulation printed by Osprey. While I in no way want to demean what the author of this game has done to make this game, I do wonder if Osprey went out into the community to which it wants to market this game and asked for their input.

The game may be well balanced for what it is, but how many plays will it get without having any variation in the tasks required. This is a question that someone like me (who is fascinated by the subject of the game offered here), considers when they are going to kick down the money to buy it. Having made a few tweaks to the original simulation might give the game more shelf life even if it deviates slightly from the original concept. The addition of the book that includes the Captain's thoughts on naval warfare in the 70s keeps the history alive even if there were deviations from the original simulation that was used for the particular mission.

I am interested in what people will say about the game and how it plays. This will influence my decision to buy it. Opinions on the game as it is are welcome.
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WLMIV wrote:
Not having read the rules but having seen the reviews, I wondered that since this was a game about subs there might be rules for torpedoes.
Read the rules and then play it. There is variation to each game owing to the random allocation of bases that the NATO player must target. Until you play TCU, there is no way you will appreciate the tension that exists with each turn, neither will you believe the the angst that hangs on every move that you plan. No matter how many reviews that you watch, you will never experience that OMG moment until you are in the driving seat.
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WLMIV wrote:
In my question I am wondering about replay-ability. My suggestion of a modular board and torpedoes only adds to that discussion.
As I posted in another thread a few days ago: TCU is very similar to Chess in many cases. The movement of the different units is easy to understand but not easy to master and the learning curve is very high.

Refering to your thoughts about a modular board: We arrived at the game of Chess again. At the same time one of the oldest and most tense games out there. You can play Chess one million times and although it is not a modular board it will always be exciting, new and fresh. If the tactics of the player developed then also the game will continue to develop. If you do not develop or adapt your strategies than each board game will end up in boring repetitions someday.

Again: I would appreciate it very much if TCU would have a modular game board! This would be the "Schlagobers mit Gupf obendrauf" as we say in Austria. cool

Please do not misunderstand me. I’m neither a Fanboy nor am I here to defend the game. Just give it a try and judge not before having played it. Thereafter, every judgment is welcome.
 
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Read the rules and then play it. There is variation to each game owing to the random allocation of bases that the NATO player must target. Until you play TCU, there is no way you will appreciate the tension that exists with each turn, neither will you believe the the angst that hangs on every move that you plan. No matter how many reviews that you watch, you will never experience that OMG moment until you are in the driving seat. [/q]

That was an excellent explanation as why to purchase it. Thanks
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The movement of the different units is easy to understand but not easy to master and the learning curve is very high.

If the tactics of the player developed then also the game will continue to develop. If you do not develop or adapt your strategies than each board game will end up in boring repetitions someday.

Two excellent reasons. Thanks.
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