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Dungeon Saga: Dwarf King's Quest» Forums » Rules

Subject: Shooting when adjacent rss

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MadLad Designs
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Can you used a ranged attack (including ranged spells) on an enemy that is adjacent?
 
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Iain Benson
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In the section on Shooting, under Resolving a Shot it states that "A model that is in the front arc of an enemy model cannot Shoot."

If you are standing behind them, there doesn't seem to be anything in the rules that states you can't shoot an arrow in their back!

Magic doesn't specify any close up restrictions, and even states that a "Spellcaster may also target himself with Long, Short or Adjacent ranged spells"

So I would say that yes, you can use ranged attack (including ranged spells) on an enemy that is adjacent, unless you have an enemy waving its weapon right in your face.
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Jiff Jaffa
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Some Spells you can, it says on them (like Burn major spell), other you can't (like flamebolt minor spell).
Adjacent shooting attacks are not allowed as under shooting:

"A model that is in the front arc of an enemy model cannot shoot"

Unless you are in the rear of an enemy and have no other enemies front arcs adjacent, so the eney is distracted and not fighting you.
 
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Thanks.
 
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Martin Vetter
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I was confused by something. If you shoot an enemy from behind he get -1 defend dice right?
However, is that ONLY if you shoot him from the 3 squares immediately behind him? Seems kind of odd..you should get the bonus as long as you are behind him.

Also how can a large model be "completely in the rear arc" when the rear arc is only 3 spaces by definition?
I take it that rear arc is actually supposed to be ANY square BEHIND the model (also far away)???

iain_benson wrote:
In the section on Shooting, under Resolving a Shot it states that "A model that is in the front arc of an enemy model cannot Shoot."

If you are standing behind them, there doesn't seem to be anything in the rules that states you can't shoot an arrow in their back!

Magic doesn't specify any close up restrictions, and even states that a "Spellcaster may also target himself with Long, Short or Adjacent ranged spells"

So I would say that yes, you can use ranged attack (including ranged spells) on an enemy that is adjacent, unless you have an enemy waving its weapon right in your face.
 
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Iain Benson
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I think it's effectively a back stab bonus.

If you are standing right behind them, it's easier to just stab them in the back with sword or arrow, so they get a disadvantage.

If you are so big you take up 4 (or more) spaces, then they will know you are there, and will have more opportunity to dodge, thus negating your benefit

If you are shooting them from behind, at a distance, the dice reflect your accuracy, rather than your strength/speed, so they aren't disadvantaged by not seeing you.

magikerendk wrote:
I was confused by something. If you shoot an enemy from behind he get -1 defend dice right?
However, is that ONLY if you shoot him from the 3 squares immediately behind him? Seems kind of odd..you should get the bonus as long as you are behind him.

Also how can a large model be "completely in the rear arc" when the rear arc is only 3 spaces by definition?
I take it that rear arc is actually supposed to be ANY square BEHIND the model (also far away)???
 
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Martin Vetter
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Yes, i see. But how can a Large model be "completely in the rear-arc" then??? I guess they mean that some part of the model is in the rear-arc and no part is in the front-arc?


iain_benson wrote:
I think it's effectively a back stab bonus.

If you are standing right behind them, it's easier to just stab them in the back with sword or arrow, so they get a disadvantage.

If you are so big you take up 4 (or more) spaces, then they will know you are there, and will have more opportunity to dodge, thus negating your benefit

If you are shooting them from behind, at a distance, the dice reflect your accuracy, rather than your strength/speed, so they aren't disadvantaged by not seeing you.

magikerendk wrote:
I was confused by something. If you shoot an enemy from behind he get -1 defend dice right?
However, is that ONLY if you shoot him from the 3 squares immediately behind him? Seems kind of odd..you should get the bonus as long as you are behind him.

Also how can a large model be "completely in the rear arc" when the rear arc is only 3 spaces by definition?
I take it that rear arc is actually supposed to be ANY square BEHIND the model (also far away)???
 
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Sam
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magikerendk wrote:
Yes, i see. But how can a Large model be "completely in the rear-arc" then??? I guess they mean that some part of the model is in the rear-arc and no part is in the front-arc?


iain_benson wrote:
I think it's effectively a back stab bonus.

If you are standing right behind them, it's easier to just stab them in the back with sword or arrow, so they get a disadvantage.

If you are so big you take up 4 (or more) spaces, then they will know you are there, and will have more opportunity to dodge, thus negating your benefit

If you are shooting them from behind, at a distance, the dice reflect your accuracy, rather than your strength/speed, so they aren't disadvantaged by not seeing you.

magikerendk wrote:
I was confused by something. If you shoot an enemy from behind he get -1 defend dice right?
However, is that ONLY if you shoot him from the 3 squares immediately behind him? Seems kind of odd..you should get the bonus as long as you are behind him.

Also how can a large model be "completely in the rear arc" when the rear arc is only 3 spaces by definition?
I take it that rear arc is actually supposed to be ANY square BEHIND the model (also far away)???



A large model could be flanking, meaning it's in the front AND rear arc, in which case it's not 'completely in the rear arc' so doesn't get a bonus. If it's only in the rear arc and squares not in the front arc of it's target, it is considered 'completely in the rear arc'
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Martin Vetter
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Crazy Jaws wrote:
magikerendk wrote:
Yes, i see. But how can a Large model be "completely in the rear-arc" then??? I guess they mean that some part of the model is in the rear-arc and no part is in the front-arc?


iain_benson wrote:
I think it's effectively a back stab bonus.

If you are standing right behind them, it's easier to just stab them in the back with sword or arrow, so they get a disadvantage.

If you are so big you take up 4 (or more) spaces, then they will know you are there, and will have more opportunity to dodge, thus negating your benefit

If you are shooting them from behind, at a distance, the dice reflect your accuracy, rather than your strength/speed, so they aren't disadvantaged by not seeing you.

magikerendk wrote:
I was confused by something. If you shoot an enemy from behind he get -1 defend dice right?
However, is that ONLY if you shoot him from the 3 squares immediately behind him? Seems kind of odd..you should get the bonus as long as you are behind him.

Also how can a large model be "completely in the rear arc" when the rear arc is only 3 spaces by definition?
I take it that rear arc is actually supposed to be ANY square BEHIND the model (also far away)???



A large model could be flanking, meaning it's in the front AND rear arc, in which case it's not 'completely in the rear arc' so doesn't get a bonus. If it's only in the rear arc and squares not in the front arc of it's target, it is considered 'completely in the rear arc'


That's how i interpret it also. But the wording is not well. 'Completely in the rear arc' - a monster with 4 squares cannot be completely in the rear arc - it have to be outside it also. But yes, I understand the intention.
 
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