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Subject: Finally! An FFG Star Wars game that's complete out of the box! rss

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Vic DiGital
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Yay! I can finally start playing Star Wars games again, knowing that I won't have to buy an endless string of supplemental items. Everything will be contained in this one box.

What's that? There WILL be expansions and supplemental releases? But it doesn't say anything about that in the press release! But.. But... Sigh... here's my money...


In all seriousness, as much as I have enjoyed the various FFG Star Wars offerings thus far, I was able to step away from the abyss and decide not to go all-in on any of the games.

But this game? I think this is the one I'm going to finally embrace, ridiculously-priced expansions and all.
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Michael Ptak
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It's nice that this is a Solid Star-Wars-in-a-box experience that doesn't heavily imply expansions. Imperial Assault is great but the draw of more minis supplements will always be there to expand the game experience. With Rebellion, you'll probably have one major expansion and maybe a couple of smaller ones to reach a "complete" rebellion experience.

Best of all, this isn't an obvious re-theme of another game.
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Vic DiGital
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Of course, while dreading expansions, I can't help but excitedly speculate about what form those might take.

From the looks of it, the general gameboard (the major planets of the galaxy) seems generic enough that they can easily add additional sideboards of new planets, and entirely new sets of miniatures and cards for something like The Clone Wars, or whatever the conflict in the Force Awakens ends up being called.

Not having played RuneWars, (assuming this game is sort of like that one), I don't know how expansions work with that game. Could this game system accommodate something like Scenarios?
 
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Enrique Canales
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Not a fan of the order token system.
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J Boomhower
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VicDigital wrote:
Of course, while dreading expansions, I can't help but excitedly speculate about what form those might take.

From the looks of it, the general gameboard (the major planets of the galaxy) seems generic enough that they can easily add additional sideboards of new planets, and entirely new sets of miniatures and cards for something like The Clone Wars, or whatever the conflict in the Force Awakens ends up being called.

Not having played RuneWars, (assuming this game is sort of like that one), I don't know how expansions work with that game. Could this game system accommodate something like Scenarios?


Banners of Wars added new armies for each faction, new optional rulesets for the main game and the ability to use heroes as leaders for your armies. Mostly enhancement...much like Battles of the Third Age for War of the Ring.
 
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Bert McCloud
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In all seriousness how "complete" is this likely to be out of the box?

I don't mind there being expansions but one of the reasons I didn't buy Imperial Assault was because it seemed as though I would instantly want to sink HUNDREDS into the expansions because there was something "missing"; when what I really wanted was something more like Descent where I would buy the base game as complete but then buy expansions because they were awesome.

Anyone genuinely know if this is going to be more like a Descent affair or an IA affair?
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Eirik Johnsbr├ąten
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From what I can tell (by what little has been shown), it seems as "complete" as Runewars and Forbidden Stars. The games works nicely with what you get in the base game, but there will always be room for expanding the experience, and maybe fix some flaws in the base game along the way. I'm not too concerned with Rebellion being a black hole in my wallet after buying.

Sweetcurse wrote:
Not a fan of the order token system.

What order token system?
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Norsehound wrote:
It's nice that this is a Solid Star-Wars-in-a-box experience that doesn't heavily imply expansions. Imperial Assault is great but the draw of more minis supplements will always be there to expand the game experience. With Rebellion, you'll probably have one major expansion and maybe a couple of smaller ones to reach a "complete" rebellion experience.

Best of all, this isn't an obvious re-theme of another game.


Its very much reminds me War of the Ring so i don't think that it's fully new game.
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Marco Signore
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Norsehound wrote:
It's nice that this is a Solid Star-Wars-in-a-box experience that doesn't heavily imply expansions. Imperial Assault is great but the draw of more minis supplements will always be there to expand the game experience. With Rebellion, you'll probably have one major expansion and maybe a couple of smaller ones to reach a "complete" rebellion experience.

Best of all, this isn't an obvious re-theme of another game.


Freedom in the Galaxy by Avalon Hill, perhaps?


Seriously, now that was the first (and until now, only) true "Star Wars" boardgame, but without the official license. I place the highest hopes in this Rebellion.
See to it personally and do not disappoint me, FFG.
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William Chew
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BertMcCloud wrote:
In all seriousness how "complete" is this likely to be out of the box?

I don't mind there being expansions but one of the reasons I didn't buy Imperial Assault was because it seemed as though I would instantly want to sink HUNDREDS into the expansions because there was something "missing"; when what I really wanted was something more like Descent where I would buy the base game as complete but then buy expansions because they were awesome.

Anyone genuinely know if this is going to be more like a Descent affair or an IA affair?


Descent 2nd edition is loaded with as many micro expansions as Imperial Assault. Imperial Assault is as complete of a game as Descent 2nd edition. The only difference is if you are into the competitive skirmish format of Imperial Assault it becomes more like x-wing where you need to buy all the character packs you use in tournaments. Descent 1st edition is another story. Tons of content in the base game and big box expansions adding a ton of content each time. That was quality and not nickel and diming.

This is a complete game, but complete games can always be expanded. It doesn't have a competitive tournament format so its not going to be riddled with tons of $15 expansions like the LCG, x-wing, and imperial assault.

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Jeff K
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This is not a minis battle game, so I doubt very much you will see a long conga line of expansions. There will likely be one or two, it is FFG after all. It seems expansions are inevitable these days anyway. But, hopefully like a lot of other games, the expansions will not be must-haves. If the base game is good enough, it will stand on its own without feeling like it requires an expansion.
 
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Bert McCloud
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MonkeyKnifeFight wrote:
Descent 2nd edition is loaded with as many micro expansions as Imperial Assault. Imperial Assault is as complete of a game as Descent 2nd edition. The only difference is if you are into the competitive skirmish format of Imperial Assault it becomes more like x-wing where you need to buy all the character packs you use in tournaments. Descent 1st edition is another story. Tons of content in the base game and big box expansions adding a ton of content each time. That was quality and not nickel and diming.

This is a complete game, but complete games can always be expanded. It doesn't have a competitive tournament format so its not going to be riddled with tons of $15 expansions like the LCG, x-wing, and imperial assault.



The distinction I was trying to make is that when IA was released it was followed almost immediately by what appeared to be a ton of expansions that may or may not have been necessary but contained a bunch of characters that people would want to own.

Descent 2E on the other hand was released as a complete game which was followed by a "small box" expansion that added extra content that gave you just more stuff to do within the game. It's only fairly recently that Descent has been churning out Lieutenant packs and hero/monster packs; IA came across as though you would want all that stuff right from the start. And that's what I would most like to know about this game; are we going to be given 35expansions from day 1 or are we working more along a "buy this if you've played the base game 20 times" kind of expansion system.
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Vic DiGital
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What makes a Star Wars game more insidious/awesome than Descent is that with Descent, you're not automatically demanding to know where the hobgoblins are (or whatever) upon the release of the original game. With Star Wars, no matter what you put in the main box, there's always going to be people asking "Where's Darth Maul?", "Where are the speeder bikes?" FFG doesn't have to sit around and brainstorm about what new things to come up with like they do for Descent. A Star Wars license means that you have a couple of thousand things to get to before you have to start brainstorming.


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Ken B.
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One thing that's been bugging me since yesterday is why isn't this game out so I can buy it already? I mean, seriously.
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Alejandro Rascon
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Sweetcurse wrote:
Not a fan of the order token system.

How do you know that is in this game?
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Ed Palacio
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He doesn't. I am assuming He is assuming
 
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gotten55 wrote:
He doesn't. I am assuming He is assuming


It's the BGG way - "I don't know anything about this, but I bet it's shit."
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Barks
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BertMcCloud wrote:
In all seriousness how "complete" is this likely to be out of the box?


Expansion #1: Dice pack...
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It is FFG we are talking about.Long ago they abandoned idea that game can be complete out of the box - milking customer is the way to go for them. Most glaring example would be mentioned Descent. In 1st edition you get complete, fat game; 2nd edition is shattered into small overpriced expansions (Lieutenants, Co-op quests and dice sets being most glaring example). Also what is more concerning is the fact that their urge to force "DLC like" business model hurts quality of their games. Look at Eldritch Horror and how criminally chopped card decks were.
 
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Paul Newsham
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Embir wrote:
It is FFG we are talking about.Long ago they abandoned idea that game can be complete out of the box - milking customer is the way to go for them. Most glaring example would be mentioned Descent. In 1st edition you get complete, fat game; 2nd edition is shattered into small overpriced expansions (Lieutenants, Co-op quests and dice sets being most glaring example). Also what is more concerning is the fact that their urge to force "DLC like" business model hurts quality of their games. Look at Eldritch Horror and how criminally chopped card decks were.


The last FFG games I bought were Mission Red Planet and Samurai. What was missing from those games?
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Tarnop wrote:
Embir wrote:
It is FFG we are talking about.Long ago they abandoned idea that game can be complete out of the box - milking customer is the way to go for them. Most glaring example would be mentioned Descent. In 1st edition you get complete, fat game; 2nd edition is shattered into small overpriced expansions (Lieutenants, Co-op quests and dice sets being most glaring example). Also what is more concerning is the fact that their urge to force "DLC like" business model hurts quality of their games. Look at Eldritch Horror and how criminally chopped card decks were.


The last FFG games I bought were Mission Red Planet and Samurai. What was missing from those games?


I don't know, I never played or bought any of those games.
What I know though, is that in Battlelore 2ed. I got only 4 dice, in EH i got pathetic numer of cards and Descent co-op expansions costs about 20 euro in my country, and you pay this price for measly 30 cards.

You must be lying to yourself if you think those practices aren't milking of customers.
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Bert McCloud
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Embir wrote:
It is FFG we are talking about.Long ago they abandoned idea that game can be complete out of the box - milking customer is the way to go for them. Most glaring example would be mentioned Descent. In 1st edition you get complete, fat game; 2nd edition is shattered into small overpriced expansions (Lieutenants, Co-op quests and dice sets being most glaring example). Also what is more concerning is the fact that their urge to force "DLC like" business model hurts quality of their games. Look at Eldritch Horror and how criminally chopped card decks were.


I disagree with Descent, I think that is as complete as they could make it at the time without out being way too expensive (I believe that the inclusion of lieutenant models would have pushed the game too high and the co-op is just not needed in my opinion.

Can't disagree with Eldritch horror though and perhaps that is what I should be concerned about here. Is there going to be a first expansion that ultimately beefs out the cards and things to make this feel more complete. With a $100 MSRP I would hope that to no be the case.
 
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Martin Larouche
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Embir wrote:
It is FFG we are talking about.Long ago they abandoned idea that game can be complete out of the box - milking customer is the way to go for them. Most glaring example would be mentioned Descent. In 1st edition you get complete, fat game; 2nd edition is shattered into small overpriced expansions (Lieutenants, Co-op quests and dice sets being most glaring example). Also what is more concerning is the fact that their urge to force "DLC like" business model hurts quality of their games. Look at Eldritch Horror and how criminally chopped card decks were.


Some of their "complete" games released in the last few years by FFG to which there are no expansions made and/or announced:
- Blue Moon Legend
- Cave Troll
- Fury of Dracula
- Merchant of Venus
- Mission red planet
- Planet steam
- Samurai
- Tigris and Euphrates
- Winter Tales
- X-Com: the board game
- The Witcher
- Forbidden Stars
- Lord of the Rings: Confrontation
- The Hobbit card game
- Star Wars Empire VS Rebellion
- Art of War

Their "incomplete" games are strictly their LCGs and Miniature games:
- X-Wing
- Armada
- Imperial Assault
- Descent 2
- Star Wars LCG
- Netrunner LCG
- Game of Thrones 2 LCG
- Conquest LCG

The majority of FFG's catalogue are "complete" games. Some might have a single expansion or 2, like Runewars or Blood bowl team manager, however those definitely have base games that are complete in and of themselves.

I would even argue that Imperial Assault is definitely complete in and of itself for campaign play. Had it for almost a year and never felt the need for any expansion. The basic campaign can be played for a looong time (and several times through), more so than most games.
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CalicoDave
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And Blue Moon Legends actually takes the original Blue Moon base game and all it's expansions and put them in one box. So it's more "complete out of the box" than the original game.
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Paul Newsham
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Embir wrote:
Tarnop wrote:
The last FFG games I bought were Mission Red Planet and Samurai. What was missing from those games?


I don't know, I never played or bought any of those games.
What I know though, is that in Battlelore 2ed. I got only 4 dice, in EH i got pathetic numer of cards and Descent co-op expansions costs about 20 euro in my country, and you pay this price for measly 30 cards.

You must be lying to yourself if you think those practices aren't milking of customers.


And slowly, we're arriving at my point. You're picking and choosing to support your argument, but it falls apart if you look at FFG's catalogue as a whole. The best comparison would be Forbidden Stars since that's also a space conquest game with lots of miniatures, and is complete and varied out of the box.
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